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Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?

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Richard Doyle
Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 19, 2010 at 7:29:02 pm

I'm editing 1080 25p EX3 PAL footage in Final Cut Studio (latest). In 'Render Control', should I choose 'Same as Sequence Codec', or Apple Pro Res 422? I will be outputting to an SD DVD. If I wanted to do a Blu-Ray, what is the process? I've tried both and there doesn't seem to be a difference. What am I missing? What's the difference between the two? Thanks.



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Ian Cook
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 19, 2010 at 7:36:25 pm

Hi Richard,

Setting this to ProRes creates ProRes render files instead of XDCAM or HDV render files. The difference (aside from the higher data rate and color sampling etc) is that ProRes is an 'I' frame codec so the GOP does not have to be rebuilt. The result is shorter render times.

It's best to do this before building a sequence. FCP will allow you to change it for existing sequences with media in them but when you do this all your existing render files go offline and new ones need to be made..

Ian


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Richard Doyle
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 19, 2010 at 7:44:52 pm

So what you're saying is that one is not better than the other? I'll get just as good an image by rendering as Pro Res AND my rendering time will be reduced?


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Ian Cook
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 19, 2010 at 7:47:02 pm

No, I wasn't saying that. Rendering to ProRes is almost definitely the better option. The render times will be shorter and technically the render files will be of higher quality due to the higher data rates and 422 sampling.


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Richard Doyle
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 19, 2010 at 7:50:39 pm

Thanks. I edited EX3 1080 25p footage in an XDCAM timeline, and exported it using "current settings" (instead of exporting as DV PAL, which is what I probably should have done, as it's going to SD DVD?), and I tried it in DVD Studio Pro and iDVD to compare. In DVD Studio Pro, it's fine. In iDVD there's 'judder'. It's very noticeable, especially with slow pans. Any idea why this is so?


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Rafael Amador
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 19, 2010 at 9:46:06 pm

Forget about the "Render to Prores", and set your sequence codec to Prores instead.
If you use that option, your renders will always be trashed, whatever the export option you take.

[Richard Doyle] "" (instead of exporting as DV PAL, which is what I probably should have done, as it's going to SD DVD?"
Going to DVD doesn't justify the use the DV codec.
Export always with the higher quality you can do.
Don't forget to set "Render in High Precision".
rafel

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Richard Doyle
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 19, 2010 at 9:58:29 pm

When you say "set your sequence codec to Prores instead", are you talking about just setting up the timeline for Pro Res LT? Does that mean I shouldn't render to Pro Res, as you used the word "instead".

I'm editing 1080 25p EX3 and 1080 25p 7D footage together. I will convert both to Pro Res LT, edit the project, export using "current settings" (1080 25p Pro Res LT) and then drop into Compressor using 'DVD Best Quality'. Is that right?

Render in "high precision" is situated here, right? It's what I have ticked here?



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Rafael Amador
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 19, 2010 at 10:52:08 pm

Hi Richard,
Don't waist your time converting the EX footage.
Conform your sequence to the EX footage and simply change the sequence codec to the Prores flavor that you like. If you are applying filters, use the "Render in High Precision" setting.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Richard Doyle
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 19, 2010 at 11:09:12 pm

"Don't waist your time converting the EX footage.
Conform your sequence to the EX footage.."

Meaning convert the 7D footage to XDCAM?

Okay, I'm totally confused now.

"..and simply change the sequence codec to the Prores flavor that you like"

Which means...set up a Pro Res LT timeline and don't worry about the render settings? But I thought you just said to conform my sequence to the EX footage?

"If you are applying filters, use the "Render in High Precision" setting."

I have no idea what this means. Do you mean applying filters like 'desaturate', Magic Bullet etc?


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Rafael Amador
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 19, 2010 at 11:20:57 pm

[Richard Doyle] ""Don't waist your time converting the EX footage.
Conform your sequence to the EX footage.."

Meaning convert the 7D footage to XDCAM?"

I mean convert just the 7D footage.
i say conform the sequence to the EX footage, so you won't have problems about size, pixels aspect, field order, etc.
Then change the sequence codec to Prores. The EX footage will work OK there.



[Richard Doyle] ""If you are applying filters, use the "Render in High Precision" setting."

I have no idea what this means. Do you mean applying filters like 'desaturate', Magic Bullet etc?"

Right. Also if you are putting graphics in your sequence. This setting will improve the rendering.
You can set this right before making the final export. No necessary to have it while editing.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Richard Doyle
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 19, 2010 at 11:29:12 pm

"I mean convert just the 7D footage."

Convert the 7D footage to XDCAM using Compressor?

"Then change the sequence codec to Prores."

Does this mean setting up a Pro Res LT timeline?

"You can set this right before making the final export."

And is that "high precision" that I have ticked in the screen shot above or do I have to do something else?


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Michael Slowe
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 20, 2010 at 6:04:23 pm

Richard, you mention some, in my experience, pretty inferior DVD production methods.

You will get a much better SD DVD (from a ProRes HQ timeline) by using the encoding software BitVice. Export your timeline as a QT .mov file and drag it to BitVice. This will also do a good quality downscale at the same time as well as preparing your ac3 audio file. I then use Studio Pro to mix it all and end up with a .img file which can then be burnt to DVD in Titanium Toast. That's a good workflow for SD DVD's and the quality I'm now getting is almost tape quality.

You mention Blu-Ray. For that obviously you need an HD timeline (mine is HQ ProRes) and I use the new version of Toast to encode and burn the BD disc.

Michael Slowe


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Richard Doyle
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 20, 2010 at 6:46:54 pm

Thanks Michael. I've heard that Compressor is better. Is that not the case? I have Titanium Pro (for BluRays) but use DVD Studio to burn SD DVDs. I'm sure you've tried both though. I'll give it a go if you recommend it.


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Michael Slowe
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 21, 2010 at 10:12:53 am

Richard, these things are very subjective, that's the problem. One man's good picture might not be the next man's good picture and without using proper testing kit it's difficult to judge. All I can say is that I'm not by any means alone in regarding BitVice as a better encoding app than Compressor. Compressor is brilliant at producing H264 files for the web etc but for DVD's try BitVice.

Michael Slowe


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Richard Doyle
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 22, 2010 at 1:03:41 pm

I will. Thanks!


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Rafael Amador
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 20, 2010 at 8:30:04 pm

[Richard Doyle] ""I mean convert just the 7D footage."

Convert the 7D footage to XDCAM using Compressor?"

Forget about XDCAM. XDCAM is OK for acquisition.
Convert the 7D footage to Prores.

Put the XDCAm and the Prores (from the 7D) in a Prores sequence.



[Richard Doyle] "And is that "high precision" that I have ticked in the screen shot above or do I have to do something else?"
Right. You have it already checked.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Richard Doyle
Re: Render as sequence codec or as Pro Res?
on Oct 20, 2010 at 8:55:02 pm

"Put the XDCAm and the Prores (from the 7D) in a Prores sequence."

I didn't realize that there'd be no need to convert the XDCAM footage to Pro Res. Just dropping the XDCAM in a Pro Res sequence sounds great. It will save me time. I'll try it.

Thanks, you've been great help. And you haven't lost your patience with me. :-)


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