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EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?

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Pablo Rivasplata
EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 13, 2010 at 2:12:56 am

Hello Forum,

I would like to know if giving the EX3 the capability of recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps -without the need to use the HD-SDI connector- is a matter of software upgrade. If yes, is it possible that our friends at Sony could give us such a well deserved upgrade in a very near future?

This would be a real treat for all of us who trusted Sony and believed in the XDCAM EX System.

Any comments are very welcome.

Pablo Rivasplata
Cinematographer


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Michael Palmer
Re: EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 13, 2010 at 2:22:51 am

Yes a firmware upgrade is all that is needed to record (4:2:2) 50Mbps, but this would not be in the best interest of Sony. This is why I purchased the Nano Flash digital HD recorder that uses the same Sony encoder that is inside the EX series cameras and the XD Cam units and I record mainly @ 100Mbps using extremely affordable CF cards. Sony will roll out higher bit rates over time, however they could come out right now with what you are asking for with very little effort.

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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Ian Cook
Re: EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 13, 2010 at 1:15:33 pm

Hi Pablo,

There aren't any plans to enable 50 Mbps 422 recording on the EX1 or 3 but the new PMW500 does include 50 Mb capability. Unfortunately this cannot be added to the EX cameras using only software.

Best,

Ian

Ian Cook
Sony Broadcast and Professional Company


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Michael Slowe
Re: EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 13, 2010 at 5:43:16 pm

How come Michael Palmer is so sure that it would only take a firmware upgrade for us users of EX cameras to record at 50mbps when Ian Cook says no? Is he, on behalf of Sony, being coy or is Michael Palmer really mistaken?

Michael Slowe


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john sharaf
Re: EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 13, 2010 at 5:49:26 pm

It is a mystery because presumably the same processing chip that's in the Nanoflash, which Sony manufactures, allows higher bit rate and even I-Frame formats. It's most likely the same part also that's in the PDW700/800's too which records the 50Mb format, and the SxS cards in the EX's are very fast, for example, in the Alexa they're rated at 448 Mbits/second. That's lightening fast!

JS



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Michael Palmer
Re: EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 13, 2010 at 6:54:21 pm

We all know the SxS cards are more than capable of handling the slightly higher bite rate.

We also know JVC and Canon both use this same encoder and Canon also offers the 50Mbps codec.

It is amazing to me that Convergent Design is able to control this encoder with a simple firmware upgrade that increased their maximum bite rate on the Nano from 220Mbps to 280Mbps by the end users in just minutes.

Ian (Sony rep) says it can't be done. Maybe Ian can elaborate to the OP what (if anything) is missing and/or why firmware can't be used to offer this feature.

I'd say it is simple marketing, and that answer would work for me because I understand higher quality comes at a price.

MP


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Ron Pestes
Re: EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 13, 2010 at 7:56:29 pm

Also, Canon's new codec is 50 Mbps and their cameras are in the same price range so Sony should be able to do it. With many clients requiring a minimun of 50 Mbps this should be a no brainer upgrade.

Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2
Sony EX-3
MacBook Pro


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Pablo Rivasplata
Re: EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 13, 2010 at 8:00:13 pm

You are right, Michael. The $7500 Canon XF305 camcorder offers 50Mbps MPEG-2 Recording and 4:2:2 Color Sampling, even though it has 3x1/3" CMOS sensors. I don't think it is fair to ask us to purchase the PMW-500 in order to record at 50Mbps.

I believe Sony would make more money by giving their EX3 camcorders this capability, because more videographers will stay using SxS Cards to safely record 50Mbps/4:2:2. One of the main pros of the EX3 -besides the great technology it offers- is its lightweight and small desing, which is a great advantage when shooting drama on location. Its small footprint allows me to see more of the interiors (small or large rooms) and get a wider variety of angles.

It is great to keep the camera configuration simple, without the need to get accessories that will make it bulky. That's why I'm interested in asking Sony for this software upgrade, if possible.



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Pablo Rivasplata
Re: EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 13, 2010 at 8:25:43 pm

Sorry, I forgot to put my signature in my previous post. And I may put my picture as well.

Thanks for any input on this thread.

Pablo Rivasplata
Cinematographer


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 13, 2010 at 11:46:31 pm

Canon also has XF100 and XF105. The XF100 will likely be just over $4000 and records to CF card at 50Mbps 4:2:2 like the XF305.

Even if there were some design limitation in the EX1r EX3 one would think they'd include it in the models that replace them.



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Don Greening
Re: EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 14, 2010 at 5:48:42 am

Keep in mind that Sony has to protect the sales of its higher end XDCAM HD lineup. Canon has no such limitation so it will load up their new models with whatever it takes to increase market share.

- Don

Don Greening
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Michael Slowe
Re: EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 14, 2010 at 10:51:31 am

Yes, I'm sure it must be a marketing issue. But not all of us EX users (any?) are candidates for the bigger cameras but would like the 50mbps so what are Sony afraid of? Why can't Ian get authority to be more 'up front' with us loyal Sony customers? I agree that many of us documentary makers don't want to clutter our cameras with even more gear strapped on, we have enough to contend with already, brilliant though the Convergent Design Nano surely is.

Michael Slowe


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Rafael Amador
Re: EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 15, 2010 at 3:43:17 am

They will never give you that, even if is just a matter of a firmware update.
Probably they are thinking that they already gave us too much with the 10b Unc SDI.
New camcorders are coming with just 8b Unc SDI.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Paul Crowe
Re: EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 15, 2010 at 7:55:13 am

Ah, c'mon Sony. I know it's a commercial long shot but throw us a bone! What about us loyal users?

I've had many Sony cameras over the years. I’ve encouraged companies I’ve worked for to go Sony every time. I was a buyer for a rental company and always went Sony.

And now when I go to rental co's (if I'm not shooting high end HD) I always ask for a sony camera. I've been brown nosed by sales reps from many of your competitors and I've sent them packing. I have an EX3 myself and there are legions of long-term loyal shooters like myself, if it's possible to do it with firmware - just do it!

And if ya feel you have to charge - I'd pay a grand or so for it!!

WHat would you dudes pay?

Cheers
Paul



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Michael Slowe
Re: EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 15, 2010 at 5:20:34 pm

Go easy Paul, a grand? Dollars or pounds? I'd certainly pay £500 but not a lot more. We've no hope though, Sony really don't understand our situation, you only have to look at how they handled the Blu-Ray encoding for small production outfits. Thank goodness people like Toast have at least now made this possible.

Michael Slowe


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Paul Crowe
Re: EX3 recording MPEG HD422 50-Mbps?
on Oct 16, 2010 at 9:39:55 am

Ah yeah, we're on the same page here Michael. 1k of my money is about 500 .

Cheers
Paul



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