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Ron Pestes
XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 6:54:06 pm

Does the new XDCAM Browser still just import a BPAV folder? I would like to have it do a .MOV file so I can import straight to FCP from my drives. This looks like it is still a two step process. I don't want to "register" my clips for FCP in advance because it might be that I am not working in FCP for a while but I still need the files ready to go without the BPAV step. I don't want to open FCP and setup a project just so I can download. There needs to be the option of making a .MOV file to do a straight copy to a drive from my SXS cards.

Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2
Sony EX-3
MacBook Pro


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Craig Seeman
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 7:18:31 pm

I am completely confused about what you're trying to accomplish.
You can copy BPAV and/or you can wrap BPAV to MOV. That hasn't changed as far as I can tell.

In either case you should always backup your BPAV with CRC checking because if the MOV files are become damaged for any reason, your toast without a backup.



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Ron Pestes
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 7:20:56 pm

Yes, I know about CRC but was hoping it could be done with the option of making a .MOV download. The two step process is not fast enough for me so I make two downloads to separate drives for safety.

Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2
Sony EX-3
MacBook Pro


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Craig Seeman
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 7:59:21 pm

Upon closer inspection I agree with you Ron. If it doesn't change the two step process it's not a workflow improvement at all. A workflow improvement would be a Copy and a Wrap to .mov in one program without having to open FCP.



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Craig Seeman
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 7:41:46 pm

So Registration for FCP is ghosted is because it's simply not functional without FCP open. I had been playing with it with FCP amount and assumed it was performing all the same functions of both ClipBrowser and XDCAM Transfer as I thought that was the intent.



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Ian Cook
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 7:27:02 pm

Hi ron,

If you are asking about using the app in standalone mode to re-wrap to .mov, without FCP running, then no, unfortunately that's not possible in 1.0. We have already asked for this functionality, which is present in XDCAM Transfer. I'd recommend you use XDCAM Transfer 2.12.

Hope this helps and thx for the feedback,

Ian

Ian Cook
Sony Broadcast and Professional Company


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Ron Pestes
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 7:28:20 pm

Yes, I have been using Transfer for this. I was just hoping for a one step solution. Hopefully in the next version?

Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2
Sony EX-3
MacBook Pro


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Craig Seeman
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 7:57:28 pm

In FCP there's now an Import XDCAM Browser in addition to Import XDCAM. The former opens the new XDCAM Browser.

XDCAM Browser can not wrap to .mov unless FCP is open as you note.

In short, while XDCAM Browser can wrap to .mov when called within FCP like XDCAM Transfer, it can not do it as a stand alone like XDCAM Transfer.

So it seems XDCAM Browser is like ClipBrowser with the addition of being able to call in from within FCP for direct wrap to .mov import.

You can already import from within FCP with XDCAM Transfer. You can already import from within FCP with Log & Transfer with Sony Plugin.

You can use ClipBrowser to copy BPAV. You can now use XDCAM Browser to copy BPAV.

XDCAM Browser improves workflow how? Please do explain. I'm sure I'm missing something.



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Ron Pestes
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 8:14:04 pm

I agree, the new Browser does not seem to help us much with workflow. Also, setting in and out points takes time to make a new clip, you can't just set the points and import, it just makes a new clip in the Explorer window. You still have to do another step to import it.

Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2
Sony EX-3
MacBook Pro


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Ian Cook
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 9:12:24 pm

Actually you can do this, just add the marks and select "In Out region" when the import dialog pops up.

The limitation vs XDCAM Transfer is that you can only create/import one at a time.

-Ian


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Ian Cook
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 8:21:34 pm

All your observations are correct, Craig.

XDCAM Browser was not intended to radically change the existing workflow. The idea was to start consolidating the features (and development costs) of all the different applications into one application that will be easier to support and maintain. Also keep in mind that this is version 1.0. There will be additional features and fixes added as the application matures.

Ian


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Craig Seeman
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 8:34:28 pm

While I certainly appreciate the long term goal but it means for the time being Sony now has to support Clip Browser, XDCAM Transfer, Log & Transfer FCP plugin and now XDCAM Browser. It's currently more overlap than consolidation.

Adding stand alone wrap to .mov would have cleared up much of the above since it could replace Clip Browser and Transfer for most people.



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Ian Cook
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 9:20:52 pm

We still 'support' the existing apps for now in terms of providing Tech Support but they're EOL as far as development, which is the costly part. Going forward all of those resources will be focused on Browser.

Also keep in mind that this is also replacing a pretty complex app for XDCAM Optical, so there was that whole feature set to deal with as well.

Appreciate the feedback, please keep it coming..

Cheers,

Ian


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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 7, 2010 at 9:42:10 pm

Yeah, we can't forget that many XDCAM folks still shoot on those spinny things ;-)

I'm bummed to hear that you need FCP running to rewrap to MOV with the new software (which I haven't downloaded yet). We consolidate our footage on a set of RAIDs managed by an iMac. Footage is reviewed and rewrapped on that machine, then the Quicktimes are pulled to/by whichever edit station requires them. That means we're not using FCP at that stage at all. Looks like we'll stick with the existing apps for now, then.

Still, it's a step for Sony. You can't handle everybody's needs at once...

Cf


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Don Greening
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 8, 2010 at 4:46:33 am

[Clint Fleckenstein] "That means we're not using FCP at that stage at all. Looks like we'll stick with the existing apps for now, then."

Clint,

I can't remember if I've mentioned this to you before, but I've been using the cataloging program CatDV for a while now and It's certainly sped up my workflow. I can log and preview clips, write comments etc. There's even a command to "send to FCP" in the menus. People that have been using this program for a while now swear by it. There's also a forum here on the COW.

http://www.squarebox.co.uk/

- Don

Don Greening
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Don Greening
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 8, 2010 at 5:21:20 am

Never mind. I went back in the forum history and have found that you've checked it out (CatDV) already.

- Don

Don Greening
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Bob Tompkins
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 8, 2010 at 11:40:11 am

This is why I am waiting to download the new app. I use Clip Browser to load my BPAV files to an internal hard drive on my Mac Pro. These are my originals. I am considering backing these up also as hard drives are so cheap. I then use XDCam Transfer to put these originals into Final Cut Server which creates my proxies and my .mov files automatically. My understanding is that ShotPut Pro will be able to send the original files to both locations (the hard drive and FCS) although I have not been able to get this to work yet. It is my goal for next week.

Quite honestly, I don't find this workflow to be slow. Yes it is two steps but once I tell it what to do it does it all in the background. I am loading three cameras per day worth of footage and it is still much faster than digitizing hours worth of tape. I am constantly refining the process and will continue to do so. I just bought an E-flims multiple slot USB card reader which I think will allow me to load four cards at the same time into ShotPut Pro. I will let you know how that works out.



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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 8, 2010 at 2:49:50 pm

Thanks, Don. Yep, we use CatDV to keep a library of our footage thanks to the feedback received here in this forum. Due to the nature of our projects, workflow, and all that, it works best for us as an archiving tool. The machine that runs CatDV and the RAIDs is where we do our rewrapping to MOV. A typical day might go like this:

- Return to base and use Clip Browser to stuff footage on the RAID using Clip Browser (CRC);

- Review/rewrap in XDCAM Transfer;

- Archive to XDCAM Disc (PDW-U1);

- Log file locations, talent, shooter, all that jazz in CatDV.

We have the Calibrated Software MP4 codec on this machine to make Quicktime and CatDV play nicely with the XDCAM EX footage. This machine has Final Cut Express on it but in all honesty I can't remember the last time we used it.

Cf


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Don Greening
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 8, 2010 at 6:59:31 pm

Hi Clint,

Your list seems like an efficient workflow on your part. It looks like you've got everything under control over there. For myself, I'll be doubling my acquisition headaches when my first Ki Pro Mini shows up in another month or so. We'll see how that goes.

Cheers,

- Don

Don Greening
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 8, 2010 at 5:49:40 pm

[Ian Cook] "Appreciate the feedback, please keep it coming.."

CRC should default to On/Enabled/Checked for sake of copy integrity.
Too many people don't know it exists and it increases the risk of a bad copy followed by erasing the master from the card. The end result is that such bad copy results in people believing that file based media is unreliable in general and XDCAM EX specifically.

Please add "Acquisition" metadata display, both Animation and Text view, back to the Preview window as it is in Clip Browser.

Please include Register for Final Cut Pro button above Explorer.
Please include Split button above Explorer.
Alternately allow one to "Edit Toolbar" so one can add such buttons and/or others.

You may also want to add "Combine Folder" target sizes as will on up to the new 128GB XDCAM discs. This is for the times when archival media is larger but targeted size than source folder.



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Ian Cook
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 8, 2010 at 6:48:54 pm

Thanks, Craig.

The acquisition meta display is part of the add-on bundle; it's not included with the free version of the application. This may change but currently that's the plan.


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Craig Seeman
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11:44 pm

[Ian Cook] "The acquisition meta display is part of the add-on bundle;"

To be blunt honest that's not one of the things I'd consider worth charging for. I've actually argued with many people that I consider this an important feature and most say they never use it. It's been one of my arguments for backing up the BPAV for example. There are many people (FCP users of course) who wrap to mov and toss the BPAV entirely.

I'm not sure what non MainConcept features Sony will sell as add ons but I can see some advanced media management features being worthwhile. For example, creating a data base, possible with proxies or even just thumbnails of what one backs up to an optical disc when using the split function. This way would would know which discs contain which shots.

What I'd really like to see is some form of project restoration (using UMID maybe) so that when one takes a XDCAM EX MOV project offline and later needs to do a bring back either the entire project or just a sequence, you can easily pull and rewrap to mov from the various back up discs . . . this even if just subclips were imported. This might be an XML which tied project to backup database for example.



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Ian Cook
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 8, 2010 at 7:17:31 pm

"To be blunt honest that's not one of the things I'd consider worth charging for."

-Beleieve me, we hear you on this one.

The media management features are a good idea and are being explored for future releases.


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Andy Mees
Re: XDCAM Browser still just BPAV?
on Oct 10, 2010 at 2:18:04 pm

Anything you can add to this thread Ian? http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/142/872926

And very generally, can you make any predictions on when we might expect feature parity with respect to the existing but EOL'd XDCAM Transfer? Would this be something planned for a XDCAM Browser 1.x release or more likely a 2.0 kind of thing. Appreciate this might be tricky info to provide but am just looking for a general feel of things as it were. I have a number of XDCAM Transfer users to support (40+) so have some vested interest!

Cheers
Andy


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