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EX-1 missing part 1 of 2-part clip

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David Shirey
EX-1 missing part 1 of 2-part clip
on Oct 5, 2010 at 9:40:22 pm

So I understand that the EX-1 splits clips into 3.40gb folders and the ClipBrowser software rejoins them when you import them. We first started using the EX-1's in March 2008 and it always made sense to me knowing the FAT32 4gb file limitation. My problem is that a shooter came back this weekend and during one piece there is a second part of a clip but no first part. The second part's folder is CAM14704_02 and contains 5 files, a bim, mp4, ppn, smi and xml. Now the missing part one has a folder CAM14704_01 but is missing the bim and obviously mp4 files. The xml and smi files do reference the missing mp4 and bim files, and the shooter says he never received any error.

I know what you're thinking, run some undelete program to see if it somehow got deleted off the card. Well the files get clipped at 3.40gb and the card only has 3.03gb free. Given that fact, I'm assuming there's not much that can be done at this point, but my question is have any of you run into this sort of problem before? That is, the EX-1 erasing a partition of a clip by itself but leaving behind the folder and metadata files?

It may be worth noting this was recorded on a Transcend 32gb class 6 sdhc card using a Hoodman sdhc->SxS adapter. But we use those adapters with both class 6 and class 10 sdhc cards almost exclusively for years and I've never had this happen. Thanks for any help you can provide.



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Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 missing part 1 of 2-part clip
on Oct 5, 2010 at 9:46:00 pm

ClipBrowser does not join them. It copies them. XDCAM Transfer joins them when rewrapping to mov.
Were they copied with CRC On?
Was a backup then made to another hard drive or Optical disc?
Shorting of someone pulling the file out of the folder it seems like it might be a bad copy.



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David Shirey
Re: EX-1 missing part 1 of 2-part clip
on Oct 6, 2010 at 3:34:30 pm

Thanks for the replies Ian and Craig, but I think I wasn't clear. As always of course I have dragged all the original files onto two separate hard drives and then I preview the clips to make sure everything is good. That's when I discovered this one clip was missing a file. I then took the original card from the camera, thereby eliminating any copy issues, and the original card is missing the mp4 of just this one clip. I'm on PC using XDCAM EX ClipBrowser v2.6 and when you export a multi-part clip into say an MXF file, it definitely does join all parts of that clip together. Since my original post I also ran some undelete software on the card but as I expected since there isn't enough free space on the card for the missing 3.40gb file to exist, it was not found.

I can't think of any way to attribute this to human error, because there's no way a camera operator can delete just an mp4 and bin file of one partition of a clip from the camera itself, especially by accident. It's just some crazy fluke, but I guess my posting was me reaching out for either some sort of miracle solution, or for people to assure me it's a once in a lifetime thing and I don't have to spend half of every shoot in the future reviewing the clip I just shot to make sure it didn't just happen again.



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Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 missing part 1 of 2-part clip
on Oct 6, 2010 at 4:04:46 pm

Yes on Windows ClipBrowser joins clips when wrapping to MXF. I was assuming you were an FCP user.

It might have been an issue with Transcend card. I wouldn't recommend them as others have had issues as well. Best to use Sandisk Extreme Class 10 and ideally your camera should have the current Sony Firmware.

Did the Camera operator notice a Media Restore message? Although that's usually a metadata issue in which the mp4 otherwise still exists. Is it possible the operator pulled the card before the writing completed? In either case knowing that wont bring back the clip though. I'd think an error would be thrown at some point given the metadata not matching the clip information though.



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David Shirey
Re: EX-1 missing part 1 of 2-part clip
on Oct 6, 2010 at 4:31:43 pm

Since I first discovered the Kensington SxS SDHC card adapters or "cheaters" as the local rental place calls them (remember the ones that wouldn't even let you close the card door?) I have always used nothing but SanDisk Extreme cards, which were class 6 at the time but later went up to class 10, and we always used 16gb ones. The card this happened on was our first and only Transcend 32gb card that the boss bought at the WEVA convention a month or so ago. I was skeptical because whenever something works well for me I become very brand loyal and adverse to change, then something like this happens which just reinforces my paranoid tendencies :)

Thanks for the info though, and yes the camera is running firmware 1.20 and he didn't receive any restore message. I know we've had that happen in the past and it always restores fine. He never removed the card from the camera the whole day, and we still have the second partition of the missing clip, which is about 6 minutes long, just not the 18 minute first part. It was actually during a Bar Mitzvah ceremony, so while a reshoot won't quite be the same, at least it's possible to do.



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Ian Cook
Re: EX-1 missing part 1 of 2-part clip
on Oct 6, 2010 at 1:37:14 pm

HI David,

I would probably agree with Craig that you may have a bad copy. It's really best to use Clip Browser or ShotPut to transfer the files. We have seen OS (drag and drop) copies create problems with missing and zeroed-out files.

Ian

Ian Cook
Sony Broadcast and Professional Company


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Andrew Lewis
Re: EX-1 missing part 1 of 2-part clip
on Nov 4, 2010 at 11:19:58 am

This happened to me on Tuesday
I had the EX3 rolling at a conference for 50 minutes on slot A. I kept rolling into an auto slot change to slot B. Every thing looked fine until I stopped rolling. The dreaded 'format needed media A' in the VF. When I transferred (Sony browser FCP6) there was no long clip on card A. The part 2 clip on B was there, as were the earlier clips on A.
I was using 2 x Kensington SXS 2 x 16G Sandisc UltraII both rated as 2. Where did the file go?
I don't seem to have these problems if I have a Sony card in the A slot

Andy


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