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What should I know to get best slo mo?

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Kent Beeson
What should I know to get best slo mo?
on Sep 25, 2010 at 8:14:20 pm

Hi

Shooting using EX1R, probably 1280x720p 60fps at 1/2000 shutter speed since I need best slo mo raw footage....If I want the absolute smoothest slo mo at at 10% of original 1280x720p 60fps, what should I do - I know that Optical flow in Motion is better than FCP slomo, but what about Compressor or Cinema Tools? Does one first conform to 24p? On FCP time line or through Compressor or what?

What workflow would provide the best cleanest smoothest slomo to make it look like it was shot at 1000fps? Shooting ballet and jazz dancers, black outfits against white BG mostly.

Thanks

K
http://www.effectivevideo.net


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Rafael Amador
Re: What should I know to get best slo mo?
on Sep 26, 2010 at 2:54:55 am

[Kent Beeson] "probably 1280x720p 60fps at 1/2000 shutter speed since I need best slo mo raw footage"
Hi Ken,
a 1/2000 shutter won't make an smooth slow motion at all.
Will look like a serie of stills one after other. The lack of motion blur will make the picture choppy.
You will need to apply some Motion Blur (Revision MB) in post.

[Kent Beeson] "I know that Optical flow in Motion is better than FCP slomo, but what about Compressor or Cinema Tools? Does one first conform to 24p? On FCP time line or through Compressor or what?"
First you need to convert the footage to any Intraframe codec, otherwise you can not conform it in CinemaTools.

[Kent Beeson] "What workflow would provide the best cleanest smoothest slomo to make it look like it was shot at 1000fps? "
To get that you need to shot at 1000fps.
To get the most closed to that on software, get Twixtor.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Kent Beeson
Re: What should I know to get best slo mo?
on Sep 27, 2010 at 3:53:44 pm

Great info, thank you...so I can see I'm going to have to do a few tests. I thought 1/2000 would be the best as it's the cleanest in terms of frames but perhaps I can just shoot 1/500 or even 1/120 at 720p 60.

One thing I've not yet comprehended is what is the difference between shooting normal 1280x720p 60 and shooting in S&Q mode at 1280x720p 60fps? Why is there even that option? Seems like no difference when I play it back - both play regular speed, but is one cleaner than the other when slo-moed? Haven't tried that yet.

Thanks

K
http://www.effectivevideo.net


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Craig Seeman
Re: What should I know to get best slo mo?
on Sep 27, 2010 at 4:15:14 pm

[Kent Beeson] "One thing I've not yet comprehended is what is the difference between shooting normal 1280x720p 60 and shooting in S&Q mode at 1280x720p 60fps? Why is there even that option? Seems like no difference when I play it back - both play regular speed, but is one cleaner than the other when slo-moed? "

Shooting at 720p24/60 Slow mo is capturing at about 87.5Mbps for playback at about 35Mbps. There's much more data per frame than shooting at 720p60 which is about 35Mbps.



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Rafael Amador
Re: What should I know to get best slo mo?
on Sep 27, 2010 at 4:39:17 pm

[Kent Beeson] "Great info, thank you...so I can see I'm going to have to do a few tests. I thought 1/2000 would be the best as it's the cleanest in terms of frames but perhaps I can just shoot 1/500 or even 1/120 at 720p 60."
Yes, make some test.
Believe me, the vide shot at high shutter speed look very little natural: Has you see the movie Gladiator, when they were fighting? Like that.


[Kent Beeson] "One thing I've not yet comprehended is what is the difference between shooting normal 1280x720p 60 and shooting in S&Q mode at 1280x720p 60fps? Why is there even that option? Seems like no difference when I play it back - both play regular speed, but is one cleaner than the other when slo-moed? Haven't tried that yet."
Yes, there is a very significant difference,
In the first case you get a file that uses 35 Mbs to write 60 frames.
In the second case you get a picture that uses 35 Mbs to write only 24 frames.
In the second case, every frame has 250 % the data of the frames in the first case.
In fact when you record in S&P mode, the camera records at much higher data rate than the usual 35 Mbps. You get the 35 Mbps when the file is read 2.5 times slower.
I wonder if you catch this.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Kent Beeson
Re: What should I know to get best slo mo?
on Sep 27, 2010 at 4:49:21 pm

Thanks for both replies, Craig and Rafael...I'm going to try some tests, shooting 720p 60 fps in S&Q mode with 1/500 shutter then 1/120 shutter, then conform to 24fps using CInema Tools, then slow that down in MOTION 4 using Optical Flow to say 10% or 15% and see what I get. Thanks for the help...

Thanks

K
http://www.effectivevideo.net


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Craig Seeman
Re: What should I know to get best slo mo?
on Sep 27, 2010 at 5:35:42 pm

[Kent Beeson] "hen conform to 24fps using CInema Tools"

If you are shooting 720p24/60 there's nothing to conform as it is already 24fps. It's already flagged as such in camera.



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Rafael Amador
Re: What should I know to get best slo mo?
on Sep 28, 2010 at 3:13:34 pm

[Craig Seeman] "If you are shooting 720p24/60 there's nothing to conform as it is already 24fps. It's already flagged as such in camera."
Right. In fact what the camera does is just to conform the p60 file to p24.
With the advantage that we had mentioned that the picture is recorded with much less compression than when shooting normal p60,
You just miss the audio.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Kent Beeson
Re: What should I know to get best slo mo?
on Sep 28, 2010 at 3:54:02 pm

I'm hoping to do these tests this week, at 24p in camera, shutter 1/120 and then 1/500, then slow it down with Motion Optical Flow at 10% and see - at $600 Twixter is a bit much right now, maybe Optical Flow (MOITON 4) can do it. Thanks for helpful replies.

Thanks

K
http://www.effectivevideo.net


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Craig Seeman
Re: What should I know to get best slo mo?
on Sep 28, 2010 at 4:19:34 pm

When I tried such experiments last year I found Twixter not to be much better than Motion's Optical Flow. Certainly Twixter gives you me tweaks in borderline situations but I found it major time consuming to experiment and not get much better results.

I was shooting a Tennis commercial and was trying to slow down racquet swings. What the object passes is the key. This includes the backgrounds as well as objects crossing any other object boarder. Even the ball to racquet contact become puddled. Alas no plugin is going to do what a $150K Phantom will do. If you want to use Optical Flow effectively you really need to do some shoot tests and makes sure you're shooting in "stark" environments. Solid backgrounds and Sky might work for example.



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Kent Beeson
How to make this effect for video?
on Sep 28, 2010 at 4:24:04 pm

Great, than you for Optical Flow confirmation - I hope to shoot the dancers against a white cyc (BG) as well as stark black BG. I take it little to no movement of camera and/or background is the key.

Thanks

K
http://www.effectivevideo.net


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Craig Seeman
Re: How to make this effect for video?
on Sep 28, 2010 at 5:08:23 pm

In addition key thinks to be concerned about:
Dancers crossing each other.
Dancers own body parts crossing themselves. Hand sweeps across face for example. Arm sweeps across leg.



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Kent Beeson
Re: How to make this effect for video?
on Sep 28, 2010 at 5:57:28 pm

good points, thanks

Thanks

K
http://www.effectivevideo.net


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