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Lost one clip In CLPR upon transfer

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James Detro
Lost one clip In CLPR upon transfer
on Sep 8, 2010 at 11:06:36 pm

HELP! I Transferred the BPAV folder to desk top from my Iomega Portable HD. Reformatted Iomega Drive to FAT32, then dropped BVAP folder back to Iomega Drive. One clip was over 2 gigs and did not make it to Iomega drive, all others did. Looked for clip that did not transfer on my desktop Original file and found that the folder name is there but the folder is empty. The clip was there before the transfer back to reformatted Iomega Drive. I understand why the clip did not go onto the FAT32 formatted Iomega, the clip was too large, but why did the clip drop from my desktop file? Is is somewhere in the computer?

Is it still somewhere on this computer? How do I find it?

MacBook Pro 10.6.4, Iomega portable firewire / usb.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Lost one clip In CLPR upon transfer
on Sep 9, 2010 at 12:46:42 am

[James Detro] "HELP! I Transferred the BPAV folder to desk top from my Iomega Portable HD."

How was it transferred TO the Iomega drive? ClipBrowser with CRC ON confirms the data passes a parity check (basically it matches the source). If it was drag and drop there's a risk the copying had a problem.

[James Detro] "One clip was over 2 gigs and did not make it to Iomega drive, all others did."

FAT32 should handle all files in BPAV since BPAV is originally recorded on SxS or SDHC which the camera formats as FAT32. In other words FAT32 would have no problem with the file size.

[James Detro] "Looked for clip that did not transfer on my desktop Original file and found that the folder name is there but the folder is empty. The clip was there before the transfer back to reformatted Iomega Drive."

It might have been a "phantom" (icon from a bad copy). You need to confirm clips with the ClipBrowser. ClipBrowser also has a Move function which allows you to enable Data Protection in Preferences.

Workflow should always be:
Copy from card with ClipBrowser CRC On.
Backup. I prefer Optical disc of some sort since they can't be accidentally erased but some will use two hard drives.
If you Move files you can use ClipBrowser for that and have Data Protection On.

[James Detro] "How do I find it?"

.MP4 files are generally numbered sequentially. Find the before and after number and confirm the gap. Search for that clip using Spotlight.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Lost one clip In CLPR upon transfer
on Sep 9, 2010 at 12:50:34 am





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James Detro
Re: Lost one clip In CLPR upon transfer
on Sep 9, 2010 at 2:17:40 am

I must clarify the problem, it all started with the Iomega hard drive.

The clip I wanted to access today was stored on an Iomega portable drive formatted Mac Journaled. When I plugged the Iomega into my MacBook Pro, the drive mounted, but clip browser (v2.6) could not pull anything from the drive. I was able to drop the files directly to the desktop, but clip browser would still not mount the files I had to use the "import" function to bring any thing in and that was one clip at a time. Having recently upgraded my MacBook to 10.6.4,I thought there was some sort of trouble due to the new software, because I also could not write to the Iomega from my desk top, or the clip browser, I went for help from Iomega. Eventually it was decided to reformat the drive. So I downloaded (COPIED) all the files from the Iomega to my desktop in a new folder and then reformatted the portable as a FAT32. Once I did that I copied the entire folder back to the Iomega by just dropping the back-up folder onto the Iomega icon. That is when I noted that one clip the only clip over 2 gigs did not copy to the Iomega. But I felt safe because I had the back-up folder still on my desktop. But low and behold, when I checked the desktop back-up folder that one clip was listed but it's folder was empty i! That clip was there prior to my copying the folder back to the reformatted Iomega. Clip browser was not for copying back ti the Iomega used because the clips on the desktop backup had to be imported one clip at a time into the Clip Browser and there were a lot of clips.

Remember this all came about because Clip Browser would not import from the Iomega originally, now with dthe folder reloaded to the Iomega directly from the desktop all clips come in normally. But that one clip was not on the Iomega and was no longer on my desktop backup, where it was before I copied everything back. That is the mystery, and I could use some help in finding out why that 2.2 gig clip disappeared! Naturally that one clip is the one the producer asked for, because he did not have his copy.

Also could you explain what I am looking at in the "preference" panel that is in the last post.

James Detro
Video/Lighting


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Craig Seeman
Re: Lost one clip In CLPR upon transfer
on Sep 9, 2010 at 2:59:38 am

[James Detro] " but clip browser (v2.6) could not pull anything from the drive."

You have to explain exactly what you did. ClipBrowser does not see BPAV folders directly. It needs to see a parent folder. That can be the drive itself though. In other word "Add" the "DriveName" to ClipBrowser. Ideally it would be "Add" the "ParentFolder" but adding the drive should work. If the drive mounted on the desktop then ClipBrowser would likely see the drive.

Please explain EXACTLY would "could not pull" means.
I "can't start the car" isn't the same as "I put the key in the ignition and the engine coughed" vs "I couldn't open the door to get in" vs "the engine revved and the car was in reverse but the wheels did not turn."

[James Detro] "I was able to drop the files directly to the desktop,"

Danger. That's where another problem can happen.

[James Detro] "Having recently upgraded my MacBook to 10.6.4,I thought there was some sort of trouble due to the new software,"

ClipBrowser 2.6 should work with 10.6.4. That's what I'm using. Again you need to describe EXACTLY what you did and what you saw.


[James Detro] "So I downloaded (COPIED) all the files from the Iomega to my desktop in a new folder and then reformatted the portable as a FAT32."

So you now have TWO folders on your computer? They are both missing the file?

[James Detro] "Once I did that I copied the entire folder back to the Iomega by just dropping the back-up folder onto the Iomega icon. "


[James Detro] "Once I did that I copied the entire folder back to the Iomega by just dropping the back-up folder onto the Iomega icon. That is when I noted that one clip the only clip over 2 gigs did not copy to the Iomega. "

How did you note this?
Did you then check the source with ClipBrowser?

[James Detro] "But I felt safe because I had the back-up folder still on my desktop. But low and behold, when I checked the desktop back-up folder that one clip was listed but it's folder was empty i!"

Something's wrong with your description. A back-up would mean you have TWO copies. A working copy and a SAFE copy. Or are you saying BOTH folders were missing the file? If that's the case the "fail" was may have been copying from Iomega by hand. I also don't understand how you checked? You should check with ClipBrowser as that confirms the metadata is good and the file is playable.

[James Detro] "emember this all came about because Clip Browser would not import from the Iomega originally,"

At that point you should stop and check the drive. If there was a problem there then all subsequent copies would be bad. In addition a backup to another drive or optical disk should have been made.


[James Detro] "Also could you explain what I am looking at in the "preference" panel that is in the last post."

Those boxes in those red circles should be checked.

ClipBrowser must have CRC ON to confirm the integrity of the copy. If you use ClipBrowser to Move a BPAV you should have Data Protection checked as well.

It's sounds like a bit of a mess of a workflow. You should NEVER take risks with masters.

1) Card is copied with ClipBrowser with CRC ON to Hard Drive.
2) Backup is made to another hard drive or optical disk with CRC ON. You now have a VERIFIED SAFE COPY.
3a) Then you can use the files on the Working Hard Drive knowing you have a verified safe copy.
3b) Alternately you do NOT erase the cards until you use your Working copy to copy to another hard drive with ClipBrowser with CRC On.

Issues:
When copied to Iomega initially ClipBrowser CRC On should be used
A second copy, also verified at that point cards preserved.
Then you can use the Iomega to do whatever KNOWING you have a verified copy.

At the point ClipBrowser didn't see the Iomega drive (and you need to explain exactly what you did in ClipBrowser) you were at risk. You would then go to your back-up (either the cards, another drive which had been verified or Optical disc).



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James Detro
Re: Lost one clip In CLPR upon transfer
on Sep 9, 2010 at 5:18:07 am

Craig: You have to explain exactly what you did. ClipBrowser does not see BPAV folders directly. It needs to see a parent folder. That can be the drive itself though. In other word "Add" the "DriveName" to ClipBrowser. Ideally it would be "Add" the "ParentFolder" but adding the drive should work. If the drive mounted on the desktop then Clip Browser would likely see the drive.

Please explain EXACTLY would "could not pull" means.
I "can't start the car" isn't the same as "I put the key in the ignition and the engine coughed" vs "I couldn't open the door to get in" vs "the engine revved and the car was in reverse but the wheels did not turn."

Clip browser saw the hard drive, opened up to where my folders named "card three" and "card four" could be seen with the "delta" triangles" next to them, clicking the "triangles" (drilling down into the folder for the actual clips) did not open up the folders ("cards"), in other word Clip Browser would not open the "card" folders on the Iomega drive. That HAD NOT been a problem when I viewed those clips one month ago while using an earlier version of Clip Browser on my MacBook with OS 10.5.8. At that time I viewed the clip I wanted with ease. This was the first time I tried to use the Iomega drive with the clip browser since I have upgraded the Clip Browser to v2.6 and the MacBook to 10.6.4. The problem was with the Iomega Drive, since I reformatted the drive any clip up loaded from the browser to the Iomega drive now moves as it should between the laptop and the Iomega field drive.

Craig: Danger. That's where another problem can happen.

There was no other way to get the files from the Iomega, Clip Browser was not working with the drive. I had to copy directly form the field drive to the desktop so I could reformat the Iomega, and keep my files.

Craig: ClipBrowser 2.6 should work with 10.6.4. That's what I'm using. Again you need to describe EXACTLY what you did and what you saw.

It does work now, but as explained earlier it would not access the files from the Iomega, files that were uploaded to the Iomega in July from my laptop using OS 10.5.8 and the PREVIOUS version of Clip
Browser. I do not remember the version, but I only loaded v2.6 just before upgrading to OS 10.6.4,

Craig: So you now have TWO folders on your computer? They are both missing the file

No I have one folder on my computer and one on the Iomega.

Craig: How did you note this?
Did you then check the source with ClipBrowser?

I went directly into the Iomega from "the finder" and viewed the listed folders and clip numbers from the "finder window", that is when I noticed that "Clip ...045" was not in the "Card Four" folder. Going back to the folder copy on my desktop, the one I had copied to the Iomega, I saw the "Clip ...045" was listed in the "Card Four" folder, only now, no information was in the "Clip ..045".

Craig: Something's wrong with your description. A back-up would mean you have TWO copies. A working copy and a SAFE copy. Or are you saying BOTH folders were missing the file? If that's the case the "fail" was may have been copying from Iomega by hand. I also don't understand how you checked? You should check with ClipBrowser as that confirms the metadata is good and the file is playable.

I think part of your question was answered in one of the above responses. But to clarify: the "back-up" refers to the folder I dropped from the Iomega before reformatting the Iomega. And yes I did check with clip browser, the problem was that Clip Browser saw both folders ( the one now dropped to the Iomega and the one on the desktop) the same way it did before. It still exhibited the same inability to open the "card" folders and reveal the contents. Meaning each individual clip had to be individually "imported" to be viewed. This problem does not exist with Clips dropped to the Iomega today using Clip Browser v2.6, but it still exits with that folder I dropped from the Iomega onto my desktop before reformatting the Iomega and the copy of that folder I copied directly back to the reformatted Iomega. The "fail" of copying by hand was necessitated by the inability of Clip Browser v2.6 to read the folders as it should. I hope this is clear, these problems are difficult to describe due to individual use of terms and my own struggle to define the exact workflow.

Craig: At that point you should stop and check the drive. If there was a problem there then all subsequent copies would be bad. In addition a backup to another drive or optical disk should have been made.

All copies are there except for "Clip ...045" which is he only clip over 2 gigs. But in order to get those clips read in Clip Browser I must "import" them individually since they still do not show up in the "Explorer" Window", only the "Card" Folders show up and cannot be opened. Every clip on the Iomega that was uploaded there by the previous version of Clip Browser using OS 10.5.8 has that problem, even the folder copied to my desktop from the Iomega before I reformatted it has that problem. Only clips taken from other hard drives, via Clip Browser v2.6 and then uploaded to the Iomega work as they should. Please note that "Clips" on my "Seagate" field drive work correctly BUT NOT SMOOTHLY, Clip
Browser v2.6 takes a good deal of time to locate the files, but it does locate them. The files on the "Seagate" were also uploaded with the earlier version of Clip Browser, from my MacBook using OS 10.5.8.

Again, my question really is why the 2.2 gig file was lost, it was there originally, I viewed the entire clip last month from the Iomega (before the upgrades) it was there in it's folder when I copied it today from the Iomega to my desktop, but it wasn't on the Iomega when I copied it back or in the desktop folder I used to copy to the Iomega. What happened to it and why. That is the critical question, where did it go on MacBook, was it erased in transfer, is it hiding some where on my laptop's hard drive.


James Detro
Video/Lighting


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Craig Seeman
Re: Lost one clip In CLPR upon transfer
on Sep 9, 2010 at 2:34:26 pm

[James Detro] " in other word Clip Browser would not open the "card" folders on the Iomega drive. "

Did you see the little brown clip icon in the left window? If not that would be the time to stop because it would indicate that there's something wrong with the BPAV.

[James Detro] "The problem was with the Iomega Drive, since I reformatted the drive any clip up loaded from the browser to the Iomega drive now moves as it should between the laptop and the Iomega field drive. "

Problems was the drive? Yes quite possible. It's why I don't trust hard drives for backup. Granted others don't trust Optical discs either but having one of each covers more bases. Ideally you should have another copy someplace else because this stuff does happen.

[James Detro] "No I have one folder on my computer and one on the Iomega. "

But if the one on your computer is a copy from the drive, after you found the problem it may simply copy the problem. Copy needs to be made from a known good source.

[James Detro] " I saw the "Clip ...045" was listed in the "Card Four" folder, only now, no information was in the "Clip ..045". "

If copies using ClipBrowser with CRC On it might of alerted you to that. If you're saying the file disappeared from the source, it may have been a "phantom" to begin with. Sometimes when a bad copy is made there's a file with the correct name but it has no data in it. That's why copying should always be done with ClipBrowser with CRC On. It'll alert you that the copy you made doesn't parity match the source. At some point either a bad copy was made or a good copy went bad (which may be a hard drive issue). That's why it pays to be paranoid like me (as others on the forum might attest to about me)

[James Detro] "But to clarify: the "back-up" refers to the folder I dropped from the Iomega before reformatting the Iomega"

If the Iomega already exhibited a problem, that's not truly a backup. Backup must be from a known good source. At the point you did this, you said ClipBrowser couldn't access the clips.


[James Detro] "The "fail" of copying by hand was necessitated by the inability of Clip Browser v2.6 to read the folders as it should. I hope this is clear, these problems are difficult to describe due to individual use of terms and my own struggle to define the exact workflow."

The problem is that the Iomega was your source and there was no other safe copy. Something happens to the drive, the data is corrupted and there's not "other" to go to. Copying the Iomega files would be copying corrupted files. Granted I'm sure you were hoping that wasn't the case, that it was only a ClipBrowser problem, but it seems the source was genuinely the problem.


[James Detro] "All copies are there except for "Clip ...045" which is he only clip over 2 gigs."

FAT32 has no problem with the size. It may be that the portion of the drive it was written to went bad. Reformatting either fixed that area or removed a bad sector. It is possible for small bits of a hard drive to go bad. It's why I don't trust them as backups. It's not always catastrophic failure, its that a small portion can go bad as well.

[James Detro] "in Clip Browser I must "import" them individually since they still do not show up in the "Explorer" Window", only the "Card" Folders show up and cannot be opened."

A sign that the source had been corrupted so ClipBrowser couldn't interpret the metadata.

[James Detro] "Please note that "Clips" on my "Seagate" field drive work correctly BUT NOT SMOOTHLY, Clip
Browser v2.6 takes a good deal of time to locate the files, but it does locate them. The files on the "Seagate" were also uploaded with the earlier version of Clip Browser, from my MacBook using OS 10.5.8. "


Seagate drive might not be fast enough or maybe it was a firmware issue they may have had but as long as files can be identified and moved by ClipBrowser they're OK. I don't think the OS is the issue as long as you're using ClipBrowser 2.6 with 10.6.4. Sony was very long in making their utilities 10.6.x compatible so older version may have had issues.

[James Detro] "Again, my question really is why the 2.2 gig file was lost, it was there originally, I viewed the entire clip last month from the Iomega (before the upgrades) it was there in it's folder when I copied it today from the Iomega to my desktop, but it wasn't on the Iomega when I copied it back or in the desktop folder I used to copy to the Iomega. What happened to it and why."

The copy from the Iomega to your desktop was likely bad even if you thought you saw the clip on the desktop ("phantom clip". That's what CRC checks for if you have it enabled. It's there precisely because this can happen.

[James Detro] "was it erased in transfer, is it hiding some where on my laptop's hard drive. "

Since you know the clip name do a spotlight search.

______
My "rule" is always have two copies of the BPAV.
At first it's Card and Hard Drive. ClipBrowser CRC copies the card to hard drive.
Then Hard Drive BPAV goes to Optical discs. Then I can erase cards. At that point I have Hard Drive and Optical disc.
At that point I can then copy to another medium if it's going to a client or I can wrap to MOV for FCP use.
So if it's for my FCP use I'll have Optical Disc, Hard Drive BPAV, Hard Drive MOV.



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