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Patrick McLoad
Just Venting
on Aug 5, 2010 at 5:19:35 pm

Although I am pleased with the picture quality of my new PMW-350 camera, I almost regret buying simply because of the complicated software to get it stored and viewed in a Mac computer. Between the XDCAM "Transfer" software; the XDCAM EX "Clip Browser" software; the XDCAM "Workflows" for FCP; and instructions from BlackMagic for In/Out, it is really over the top. DOES IT HAVE TO BE THIS COMPLICATED?

I simply want to:
successfully export all clips (and associated data) from my camera into a computer;
import directly into FCP for editing (Log and Transfer);
and preview the clips either directly from the hard drive or in "transfer" without getting the usual "cannot play" message.

The ONLY way I have been able to successfully view the clips is directly from the camera via HDMI into a monitor. Once they have been transferred over to a computer hard drive, it's anyone's guess as to it they will play or not.

Sony has made this very difficult.

Patrick McLoad


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Craig Seeman
EX XDCAM Workflow hassle
on Aug 5, 2010 at 5:31:50 pm

My bet is this will all change with Final Cut Studio 4.
Sony Vegas, Adobe Premiere, Edius and, I believe Avid with the new AMA all allow direct use of the MP4 files.

BTW you can buy the Calibrated Software EX MP4 plugin and even FCP can use those files directly.

Yes, I agree that the idea of having to rewrap adds another step and another bunch of files and makes reconstituting projects a major hassle too.

I think Apple is aware of the demand for direct codec support and I think it'll be there in the next FCS upgrade.

I'd not it's not so much a Mac thing as it's specific to Final Cut Pro. There are other Mac NLEs that don't need this workflow. Also note that Avid users had to deal with wrap to MXF.

And if you think EX XDCAM is bad imagine dealing with AVCHD which isn't resolved by a simple rewrap but a time consuming transcode to much larger ProRes files.

BTW there's also rumor that Apple is working on a new codec. My hunch they're looking at something more efficient than ProRes.



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Bob Tompkins
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 5, 2010 at 5:56:51 pm

I agree that all of the things you talk about are a pain. I think that Sony and their dealers need to a better job of explaining XDCam and the FCP workflow and have expressed this to my dealer.

I do like having full HD for $6300.00 (EX1r). I also like not having tape anymore although deep inside I do feel like I am going to get burned using SDHC cards eventually.

Is FCS4 imminent?



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Craig Seeman
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 5, 2010 at 6:07:57 pm

Rumors of FCS4 range from end of this year to around July of next year. Apple's pattern has been every two years with the exact date varying a bit.

Another problem with the EX workflow specific to Final Cut Pro is that neither Apple nor Sony do a good job explaining it. Sony has a PDF on their site which I actually think is misleading. Apple has a PDF on EX XDCAM (and file based workflows in general) which seems incomplete to me as well.

There's NO explanation of the pitfalls to Post Production workflow with MOV being specific to FCP (can't easily share with other systems) and how to reconstitute offline projects.

To basic workflow for me is:
Copy to hard drive with ClipBrowser with CRC On for copy verification.
Backup BPAV to Blu-ray discs
Use XDCAM Transfer to wrap to mov for FCP.

BPAV can go to whoever else might need the masters
Reconstitue offline project means rewrapping the BPAV to MOV as needed.

Once you get into subclipping or renaming clips for importing you open a Pandora's Box IMHO. I wish the workflow made that simple but it doesn't. Others will back up the MOV files but then you've got both BPAV or MOV. Others will toss the BPAV and then you've lost the masters with the metadata. MInd you this is really Apple/FCP fault because if MP4 were directly supported you could simply import the clips, back them up and be done with it.



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Patrick McLoad
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 5, 2010 at 6:18:15 pm

To further muddy the water, Apple has yet to remove the failed HD format from DVDSP4 and replace it with BlueRay. I use DVDSP for all of my authoring (SD up to now), and have yet to learn how to migrate a high-definition project from DVDSP to a BluRay burner for client use.
You would think with the popularity of this application, and their immense amount of money on hand, they could fix this with an update.....but NOOOOO...they are too busy selling I-Phones.

P



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Craig Seeman
EX XDCAM HD Client Delivery
on Aug 5, 2010 at 6:55:37 pm

[Patrick McLoad] "To further muddy the water, Apple has yet to remove the failed HD format from DVDSP4 and replace it with BlueRay."

A worthy topic unto itself. To keep in OnTopic I'd call it EX XDCAM HD Client Delivery.

I truly understand Steve Jobs' sentiments about Blu-ray . . . as a consumer viewing format.
Everywhere where good broadband is available (and that's one catch) download for consumer viewing will surpass discs.

But we're content creator dealing with client delivery. Blu-ray is a back up method. There's no issue with that given the number of third party internal and external Blu-ray burners. Actually I'd prefer it that way if Apple overcharges for it like their other BTO options. BTW 100GB Blu-ray is on the way and you'll need to buy a new burner for that. Sigh!

What Apple hasn't done is offer an alternative DELIVERY method for HD content.
YouTube can handle 1080p and even 4K (!!!) for viewing but I wouldn't call YouTube professional delivery.
MobileMe has a 2GB file size limit so it doesn't allow for long form delivery.

The problem is though that most clients who need "product" for distribution don't trust the market penetration of Blu-ray players and I can't blame them.

What Apple really needs to do is create MobileMePro for high end (large file) delivery, screening, cloud distribution.

______
When I've had to deliver files to clients I've given them BPAV burned to Blu-ray or hard drive, Apple ProRes which is universal now that it can be played/used on both Windows and Mac and doesn't require FCP as the decoder is a freely distributable Quicktime Component. For quick screening I can use Vimeo or ExposureRoom (no duration limit but there's still the file size limit) with password protection.

If they're just playing back for presentation, they only need a good H.264 encode rather than a Blu-ray disc. There are many inexpensive Media File players now if they don't want to be tied to a laptop.

The only time clients ask for playable disc they've asked me for DVD as they don't yet trust Blu-ray market penetration (as I note above).

I agree that Blu-ray is a transitional format for delivery but a clear professional alternative hasn't been established.

Blu-ray, LTO, XDCAM disc as data are probably the best non destructive archival means at the moment (which doesn't mean any are ideal) so we need a better alternative there as well.

In short:
We need Professional File Based Delivery
We need Professional File based Backup (better than current technology)



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Patrick McLoad
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 5, 2010 at 6:11:42 pm

Not to beat a dead horse, but my biggest fear is returning from an out of state or country shoot only to find that I did not transfer my clips correctly for one reason or another. Perhaps the answer is to just have $5,000 worth of SxS cards and not transfer ANYTHING.

Why in the world would Sony title their software "Transfer" when it has nothing to do with transferring files? I quote from the XDCAM EX Workflows manual for FCP: "To archive media from an SxS card to hard disc or other media, the Sony XDCAM EX Clip Browser application MUST (underlined) be used".

How can this be for an application named "Browser"? To browse is to look around; to transfer is to move from one to another. I bought an overpriced $300 piece of Sony junk, the SBAC-US10 SxS Memory Card USB Reader/Writer. Hasn't worked yet, and I can't trust it as far as I can throw it.

But you're right...one of these days it's gonna bite us, and I can't imagine how that conversation will go with the client, informing him that we only have half of the footage shot. Oh, and that expensive set-up for the CEO? It's gone too. Yet one more reason for expensive production insurance.

At least with tape, you knew it was in the can.

Patrick



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Craig Seeman
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 5, 2010 at 6:34:22 pm

[Patrick McLoad] "Perhaps the answer is to just have $5,000 worth of SxS cards and not transfer ANYTHING."

I really think people are being overly paranoid about SDHC. That's because they're cutting more corners than they should.
Update to current firmware which has GREATLY improved SDHC reliability. Then get the BEST possible cards. Current Sandisk Extreme Class 10 from a RELIABLE dealer. Then you can buy enough cards so you never have to transfer during a shoot.

Currently $182.50 after rebate which is less than 1/4 the price of equivalent SxS
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/617061-REG/SanDisk_SDSDX3_032G_A31_32...

People have problems when they cut corners by getting Transcend cards or from other manufacturers.

[Patrick McLoad] "Why in the world would Sony title their software "Transfer" when it has nothing to do with transferring files? I quote from the XDCAM EX Workflows manual for FCP: "To archive media from an SxS card to hard disc or other media, the Sony XDCAM EX Clip Browser application MUST (underlined) be used"."

Sony software names are certainly counter intuitive.

ClipBrowser on Mac is primarily used for copy, split, combine BPAV for backup purposes. On Windows many use it to rewrap to MXF. It also has logging functions.

XDCAM Transfer for rewrap to MOV for FCP. It also has logging functions.

There's also a rumor that this two tool division may be changing in the future.

[Patrick McLoad] "I bought an overpriced $300 piece of Sony junk, the SBAC-US10 SxS Memory Card USB Reader/Writer. Hasn't worked yet, and I can't trust it as far as I can throw it."

It's always worked for me. It's specific to SxS cards which are PCIe based and not the USB adaptors one uses for SDHC. For many this device has become more important since Apple dropped the Express port (which can handle SxS directly) on the 15" MacBookPro. Of course including SDHC slots makes using that workflow even easier . . . and another reason why I recommend it.


[Patrick McLoad] "But you're right...one of these days it's gonna bite us, and I can't imagine how that conversation will go with the client, informing him that we only have half of the footage shot. Oh, and that expensive set-up for the CEO? It's gone too. Yet one more reason for expensive production insurance."

All this is in the process of changing. Note that the JVC HM series which use EX codec records to SDHC (good) and MOV (bad IMHO) although you can add SxS adaptor and record BPAV.

The future:
Sony's next round of cameras may have SDHC built in.
Apple's next FCS update will have direct codec support.



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Steve Connor
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 5, 2010 at 10:32:46 pm

The workflow is reliable and relatively straightforward, I have been working with EX and FCP since the EX1 first came out with NO file problems at all. Like any new system you just need to know how it works,.

I would recommend anyone who is buying an EX camera to research the workflow thoroughly BEFORE you invest in the kit. there are plenty of courses available out there.

Hopefully any new FCP will make it a little easier, but I also understand Sony may be working on a more unified piece of software for XDcam


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Ron Pestes
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 5, 2010 at 11:09:58 pm

I know this will make some people shudder but here is my work flow. I use XDCAM Trasfer and copy the complete contents of the cards to two seperate drives and then just start FCP and go to work. I have never had a corrupt file and the extra work is not worth it. What about tape and all the problems we used to deal with when their was no back up for a bad tape with drop outs etc. That was much more likely than a corrupt file yet we all lived to work another day. I think everyone is too paranoid about loosing data. It is so rare it is not worth worring about. Just my opinion, I'm sure to hear the other side in the next post! LOL!

Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2
Sony EX-3
MacBook Pro


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Patrick McLoad
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 6, 2010 at 2:11:13 am

Let me first apologize for coming to this advanced forum and complaining like a newbie. No doubt, my frustration is born simply out of lack of knowledge and experience with the applications, terminology, and work flows.

I understand that for all practical purposes, "Transfer" requires your media to be connected and accessible, either by camera itself or via a card reader. It also seems to be geared towards importing clips into FCP, which I can do okay.

But there is just stuff I seem to not understand. For example, when a SxS card is in the reader, and I can view and play all clips, then all is well. There's the menu option to "Import All Clips" (and button). Selecting this seems to put all clips in a task que, and it looks as though each clip is being imported from the card onto the computer....but I can never find these files after the SxS card has been ejected. So I don't know what's up with that. Perhaps they all need to live in a BPAV folder, and the only way to do this is with Clip Browser, not Transfer. I don't yet see how anyone can save clips from an SxS card using Transfer....that is unless into FCP.

Don't mind me, I'll find my own way through this.

P



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Ron Pestes
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 6, 2010 at 2:46:01 am

There is a simple answer to your question of how to find the clips once imported. In XDCAM Transfer click on the "file" (I think, I don't have it open in front of me), dropdown menu and click on "preferences". When that window opens there is a tab on the top right called "import". Open it and choose your destination folder. Then import and they will be in that folder! Once you do it about twice it becomes very fast and will end you trouble of where the files go. Good luck, it gets easier!

Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2
Sony EX-3
MacBook Pro


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Don Greening
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 6, 2010 at 2:48:30 am

[Patrick McLoad] "Selecting this seems to put all clips in a task que, and it looks as though each clip is being imported from the card onto the computer....but I can never find these files after the SxS card has been ejected."

If you're using XDCAM Transfer, which I assume you are, then in the XDCAM Transfer preferences window you can choose where your transferred files can go by creating a specific folder on your hard drive and pointing XDCAM Transfer to that folder. The default folder, I believe, is the Documents folder on your system drive.

- Don

Don Greening
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 6, 2010 at 3:06:52 am

Have you read the Sony XDCAM Transfer PDF manual?



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Patrick McLoad
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 6, 2010 at 3:49:33 am

Thank you all for your kind responses.

Yes, I have read both the Transfer PDF and the Clip Browser PDF. BTW, the Clip Browser PDF must be for an earlier version, as it fails to discuss two or three additional tabs in Preferences set-up menu.

I was able to copy selected files to hard drive from the SxS USB card reader using Clip Browser application, From there, each clip can be viewed, or, in Transfer, select the appropriate file on left column and all files are readily viewable.

Tho seems like this could have all been done in one application, but what do I know.

Thanks again; I think I'm on track now.

Patrick



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Craig Seeman
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 6, 2010 at 4:09:36 am

I've heard that it may all be done in one app in the near future and, I hope, you'll simply be able to import the files directly into Final Cut Pro as of the next Final Cut Studio.

BTW this is my quick Sony XDCAM Transfer tutorial.




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Kuhnen Brown
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 6, 2010 at 7:11:24 am

Craig mentioned Calibrated Software EX MP4 plug-in. This plus Square Box Software\'s CatDV is a dream come true, avoiding wrapped files AND log-and-transfer. Best money ever spent. Why wait another year for the next version of FCP from the same people who just delivered a new MacPro with yesteryear\'s hardware? ; - )
Kuhnen


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Craig Seeman
Calibrated EX XDCAM MP4 Batch Import
on Aug 6, 2010 at 11:05:59 am

BTW here's my batch import tutorial using Calibrated MP4 plugin. There's a notable time and hard drive space savings not having to rewrap to .mov. It also means your projects files link back to the BPAV .mp4.





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Michael Slowe
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 6, 2010 at 10:27:06 am

Patrick, you appear to have got involved with too many applications. I edit on Media 100 but I think the principles are similar. I transfer all files direct from the camera to a hard drive (small USB powered one if on location) through my MacBook laptop. Twelve minutes or so for the 16 Gb card, S x S. I don't bother with Clip Browser at all (Craig knows and thoroughly disapproves). I then back up the files later to a second drive. For ingesting into Media 100 I use the Sony Transfer app to play the clips and using that interface can select in / out points of each clip for import and they go straight into whatever bin I choose to have open in Media 100. There is a slight delay for rendering to my chosen codec (currently ProRes 422 HQ) and I'm editing. One vital thing that I'm sure you know, is that when transferring BPAV files they must never be dissected and any folder that you put them in must start with the letters BPAV.

Michael Slowe


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Patrick McLoad
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 6, 2010 at 12:53:55 pm

Thank you for those tutorials and suggestions; I'll explore those workflows in the next couple of days.

Obviously, sitting here in the AC at my editing desk with a big powerful MacPro is quite different than being on location in the middle of a hectic shoot day. To empty a card, I do not want to have to bring the camera inside, connect to a laptop, and transfer files from the camera. I want to have the laptop inside with the card reader. This way, I can continue shooting while another person (or myself during a break or lunch) transfers clips. Granted, that's probably an extreme situation, but it could happen, especially if shooting 1080p.

So a Mac laptop is probably in my future. Yes, I have one of those small Passport-style hard drives, but the problem with those is that you can't SEE anything, and there's no indication that files have all loaded correctly. Although I haven't played with it much, I would be more prone to connect it to the laptop and drag files into it AFTER having transferred them to the laptop. At least with a laptop, you can open that portable hard drive to see what is in it.

In transferring files via iLink from the camera, a BVAP folder is created on the desktop which contains clips. However, this folder is still somewhat of a mystery to me. Subsequent connections (from camera to computer) does not seem to produce yet another BVAP folder for transfer of new clips. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, or if I have to first make a new destination folder for these new clips.
That's another issue I'll have to become more familiar with.

It also occurred to me that a successful transfer of clips is highly dependent on the interconnecting cables. Let's face it, there's a lot of low-end junk that comes free with some of these devices. I think I'll invest in a couple of gold-end, well made cables to accompany the card reader.

I have not done so yet, but do you use the software in the camera to delete all clips or some other way? say with Clip Browser?

Many thanks.

Patrick



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Craig Seeman
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 6, 2010 at 1:10:32 pm

[Patrick McLoad] "To empty a card, I do not want to have to bring the camera inside, connect to a laptop, and transfer files from the camera. I want to have the laptop inside with the card reader. This way, I can continue shooting while another person (or myself during a break or lunch) transfers clips. Granted, that's probably an extreme situation, but it could happen, especially if shooting 1080p."

It's always risky to transfer and erase cards during a shoot. Human error is catastrophic. Get enough SxS or SDHC cards (much less expensive) to get you through the shoot day. Two 32GB cards will get you nearly four hours of record time. Unless you're shooting non stop, that will get you through a shoot day.

1080p has nothing to do with record time. XDCAM codec is 35mbps regardless of frame size or frame rate. Only overcrank uses data faster.

[Patrick McLoad] "In transferring files via iLink from the camera, a BVAP folder is created on the desktop"

You seem to be very misinformed. Please don't make wrong assumptions. Read manuals and ask questions rather than make serious mistakes.

Data is not transferred by i-link. It is either USB from camera or by SxS card reader or SDHC if you are using that format.

The BPAV goes to where you designate it and it should be in a parent folder. It is not necessarily the desktop although the parent folder can certainly be on the desktop.

[Patrick McLoad] "Subsequent connections (from camera to computer) does not seem to produce yet another BVAP folder for transfer of new clips. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, or if I have to first make a new destination folder for these new clips."

Connections don't create folder on anything. You must copy the files and you should be doing that with Sony ClipBrowser, a utility that comes on CD with the camera but better to download the current version. BPAV goes where YOU direct it to go and in a parent folder.

[Patrick McLoad] "It also occurred to me that a successful transfer of clips is highly dependent on the interconnecting cables. Let's face it, there's a lot of low-end junk that comes free with some of these devices. I think I'll invest in a couple of gold-end, well made cables to accompany the card reader."

SxS can go into a laptop with SxS card reader. Actually same can be done with SDHC if you use that format and your laptop has a built in reader. Again doing this during a shoot is disaster waiting to happen. Buy enough cards so you don't have to transfer in the field.

[Patrick McLoad] "I have not done so yet, but do you use the software in the camera to delete all clips or some other way? say with Clip Browser?"

Get enough cards and you don't have to risk erasing the wrong one in the field. I generally delete the clips in the camera after end of shoot transfer and confirmation (ClipBrowser with CRC on). Deleting on the computer can sometimes create invisible files in the data structure of the card. Sometimes people will also do a periodic reformat but I avoid that.



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Patrick McLoad
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 6, 2010 at 1:24:20 pm

Thanks Craig, though I didn't mean to create so much work for you in replying. Yes, I am very misinformed and will refrain from any more posts.



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Steve Wargo
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 12, 2010 at 3:33:20 am

[Craig Seeman] "Have you read the Sony XDCAM Transfer PDF manual?"

Read the what?

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .

Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards


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Patrick McLoad
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 12, 2010 at 2:10:43 pm

I readily admit that I am a newbie to the XDCAM EX workflow, but learning every day. As can be seen from other responders, it's not as B&W (or clear) by simply "reading the manual(s)".

A person like myself comes to forums to seek advice and experience from others. A good moderator understands this and shows patience, however a bad moderator (or even one who contributes to the thread) is one that is smug and self-righteous. It must be nice to be the type of person who has never had a question about anything technical in his life. Your reply infantile, and was neither funny nor original.



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Steve Wargo
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 13, 2010 at 7:24:58 am

[Patrick McLoad] "Your reply infantile, and was neither funny nor original."

Patrick - Just wait till Bob Zellin gets hold of your "no sense of humor" attitude.

My remark was not aimed at you. It was aimed at Craig Seeman for thinking that an American man would actually take the time to read an actual manual. Other than Tom Murphy, of course.

jeeeeez, after being in the business for 30 years, some of us have enough manuals that it would take years to read all of them.

You might want to look into a manual on Internet Etiquette. I have saved people's butts in Australia in the middle the night on a Sunday so you can just keep your whoa-is-me attitude to yourself. I started on the COW many years ago by asking hundreds of stupid questions about D-Vision and Discreet Edit. However, I have an extensive experience and knowledge in mechanical engineering. I know how to bring dead equipment back to life.

So there!

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .

Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards


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Patrick McLoad
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 13, 2010 at 12:15:27 pm

Steve: Put yourself in my shoes and you would come to the same conclusion. Your remark was extremely brief. Had you elaborated as you did in your last post, then we wouldn't be having this exchange.

I too have been in the business for over 30 years, having started on A-B roll JVC U-matics and a bit of 1" work and 16mm film. I have collected and read more manuals than Carter has liver pills. When no one is around, the manual is all you got....especially during the pre-Internet days. Linear tape operations and switchers were much easier than all of this digital stuff. I think my first computer-operated system was a Calaway which simply slaved two 3/4" machines and a BetaSP. This PMW-350 is my 5th 2/3" broadcast camera, not counting the plumbicon-tubed cameras that required registration.

I've been shooting and editing BetaSp for over a decade, using FCP, PhotoShop, and AE to name a few. The Adobe stuff has always had a high learning curve just like any serious (and costly) application.
XDCAM EX is no different. I'm not a digital electronics engineer. When I click on a button while following a (published) sequence, I expect an appropriate result. When I don't get one, then I have to find out why. You will have to admit that Sony and other electronic manufacturers don't exactly make this process easy, nor are the myriad of manuals out there all that clear. I would be more than happy to bury myself in a manual if that is what's required.

I have no doubt that you have saved many butts out there as have I on other forums. But you will have to admit that I had no way of knowing WHO your remark was directed towards. So if I misunderstood, then my apologies.

Although I am not a certified engineer, I too know how mechanical things work, having been raised by an engineer. I am now on my 4th classic car restoration, and this is the quality of work I do:
http://jagxke.wordpress.com/

So let's allow this thread to die....please.



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Steve Wargo
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 13, 2010 at 4:27:31 pm

So admit it. You jumped to the wrong conclusion and said some disparaging things to me.

My mistake is that I usually forget to "Quote" the person I am responding to but I did not say anything negative.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .

Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards


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Patrick McLoad
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 13, 2010 at 5:36:39 pm

I admit nothing. It is unfortunate that you are not willing to take any responsibility whatsoever for your own words. Who has the attitude now?



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Steve Wargo
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 12, 2010 at 3:36:51 am

Let me know if you want to unload that reader.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .

Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards


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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 6, 2010 at 1:38:18 pm

XDCAM EX footage could have worked a LOT better if Sony had started with ONE app for browsing, logging, and transferring / rewrapping. Instead I think they chose to make some XDCAM tools compatible with EX and muddied the waters significantly.

Thankfully we've been to busy for me to find out if this has been fixed, but I remember early on when we logged and named clips in Clip Browser, only to find out that those items are worthless to XDCAM Transfer and didn't transfer to Final Cut Pro. If this has been addressed, please let me know...because that would be VERY handy.

I don't feel like having hundreds (if not thousands) of cached sources in my XDCAM Transfer pane, so when I clear them out any clip information such as subclips or other metadata is cleared as well, instead of being stored in that oh-so-important BPAV structure. Again, tell me if that's been fixed, because it was really infurating to see that information vanish when we cleaned up the Source pain in XDCAM Transfer the first time.

I remain devoted to the XDCAM EX gear, because I still think it's the best thing out there. I do, however, wish that Sony had gone out on a limb and made a more EX-specific XDCAM tool to handle browsing, transferring, and rewrapping all in one shot. Oh, and make good use of the BPAV folder for clip logging information.

Cf


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Craig Seeman
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 6, 2010 at 6:01:35 pm

Runor is that they are heading towards a unified tool.

The ideal would a good logging tool in which all the info was added to the metadata which would make the BPAV's use of metadata more useful. Then if the "lagging" NLE(s) had direct codec support along with that metadata everything would make so much more sense and the workflow more streamlined.



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Daniel Wright
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 6, 2010 at 8:53:50 pm

Clint,

You maybe happy to hear that the metadata entered in XDCAM Transfer *can* be saved back to the BPAV. Next time the folder is added, the metadata reappears in the appropriate fields. I think this feature was added some time ago. You should see a black dot appear next to the card in the Source area when you make changes to the metadata which disappears once they have been saved.

A mechanism for saving subclips is sadly lacking, although there was a workaround for that posted here:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/142/870550#870581

I'm not sure about metadata added in Clip Browser but I would guess the situation is the same. To be honest, I prefer the user interface of XDCAM Transfer for logging, anyway.

The sticky point is seeing the metadata in FCP.

Of course, you get the clip title appended with the subclip name if your preferences are set appropriately.

Also, the clip comment added in XDCAM Transfer gets added as the 'Log Note' in FCP, which is really handy because you can get a lot of information in there. This is provided that you either (a) launch XDCAM Transfer from FCP or (b) set your preferences to write the FCP XML and add the XML file to FCP (do not add the .mov directly).

HTH


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Dave Morrison
Re: Just Venting
on Aug 7, 2010 at 10:20:41 pm

Hey Patrick, let me know when you want to get rid of that "piece of junk" card reader. I need a backup for mine. ;-)

dave


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steve breck
XDCAM workflow for CS4
on Sep 16, 2010 at 4:47:26 pm

I capture to Transcend 32GB cards(MxR). I pop the card in my PC: click search; type "MP4"; select all and click copy to folder (on my hard drive); 32 GB takes about 20 minutes to transfer; open CS4 and edit. I save the BPAV folders to plug-in drives on my docking station. I probably will never use them. The clip naming info gives me project and date. That's all I need.


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