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XDCam Ingest SOS

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James Miller
XDCam Ingest SOS
on Jun 23, 2010 at 1:53:32 pm

Hi there,

We work with XDCam footage a lot and one angle has come back and I can't make head nor tail of whats gone wrong or how to prevent it from happening again - can you offer any insight.

Camera B recorded to 3 EX3 cards (8,8 and 16gig). When you copy all 3 cards to the computer and then put them in XDCam transfer it spits up that the files are incomplete. Usually if you have the other cards copied it manages to relink them and you can import the whole file - this is not happening. However when I look at the file more in depth I find that chunks of footage are missing. At some points up to 12 minutes of footage is just gone (was recording one long continuous piece) and others just a few seconds. It is also not stitching the files together, so you are downloading pieces and have to place them manually on the time line.

I've tried looking at the footage using Log and Transfer as well, and I get the same thing. I've gone back to just looking at the data off the cards and again the same thing. Anyone have any ideas or is this beyond everyone? Total nightmare

Cheers

BTW: Downloading XDCam Transfer 2.12 to try that. Total headache to find a working download link http://support.sonybiz.ca/esupport/eSupportHome.asp if anyone wants it!


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Craig Seeman
Re: XDCam Ingest SOS
on Jun 23, 2010 at 2:24:35 pm

[James Miller] "When you copy all 3 cards to the computer"

They were copied how?
Hopefully with ClipBrowser and CRC on. If not, it could be a bad copy, or whatever they were copied to became corrupted. Files on hard drives are known for doing that now and then. I also back up BPAV to optical media as well (DV-DL or Blu-ray for example).



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James Miller
Re: XDCam Ingest SOS
on Jun 23, 2010 at 3:04:07 pm

No they were not on but I went back to the cards and examined straight from there, and its the same thing. We normally take whole copies of the files and put them on a hard drive so the clips can connect themselves again if spanned. Anyway in this case we still have the cards and they don't work either.... thanks though


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Craig Seeman
Re: XDCam Ingest SOS
on Jun 23, 2010 at 3:10:36 pm

[James Miller] "We normally take whole copies of the files and put them on a hard drive so the clips can connect themselves again if spanned."
What you should do but you should do that with ClipBrowser and CRC. It's about the only way to ensure your copies match the original (ShotPut can too).

[James Miller] "Anyway in this case we still have the cards and they don't work either"
Bad recordings? That's rare especially if it's pervasive as you describe. It's possible to get a bad clip if it's a mishandled SDHC card and even then most of the time it's only the metadata, not the media itself, that's damaged.

The camera operator reported no bad behavior when recording, no error messages?
In most cases where there's corruption the operator was hit with a media restore or media error message. At that point one can attempt to restore and check playback of the clips in camera.

Something about this picture doesn't sound right. It sounds like somebody isn't telling a complete story.




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Ronnie Martin
Re: XDCam Ingest SOS
on Jun 23, 2010 at 3:33:38 pm

I have been recording for 3 years now with EX-1 and Ex-3 using the same cards over and over.... for hundreds of hours with out a glitch.
There are times when I get the "about to switch slots" message and if I am not recording at the moment I switch manually. In those instances when the camera is running and the switch card comes up as one fills up there has never been a problem. The only problem I have had is when using after market reader MXR and aftermarket cards.
One of the readers failed during a shoot I was lucky that I had a SXS card in the second slot and I just hit the change slot button and kept on shooting. I did loose a few second of the previous clip.

The reliability of the Sony EX cameras series for me has been nothing but outstanding. I just wish I had the money to add the 2/3 or even the 1/2 new cameras to our arsenal.

Ronnie Martin
http://www.ramtv.tv

Ronnie Martin
Kato Video Productions
http://www.dirtracingvideo.com


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Greg Ondera
Re: XDCam Ingest SOS
on Jun 23, 2010 at 4:07:06 pm

Ronnie - Seems to me like you might be creating a problem by throttling the cards in this manner you describe. I very adamantly advocate using XDCam Clip Browser for initially ingesting all cards into a stack of folders I have created. This is good workflow practice. I also say, let the cards span and I do this all the time. I shoot multi-hour surgery and want to make one clip from each camera that I can synch later. Not that you want to do something like that, but after you ingest all your footage through Clip Browser, which gives you great comprehension of what you have ingested, and after the shoot, you take every folder you have loaded at once, all together, into XDCam Transfer, highlight them all(after you have labeled them the way you want) and transfer them for Final Cut Pro and it stitches it all together for you into one clip, if that is how you shot.

This being said, I have also many times spoken of how much I think Sony has poorly marketed the workflow for XDCam EX products. So many posts are about videographers who have devised some way of doing things and trying to work it out for themselves, which is commendable. I listened to Doug Jensen in his DVD from Vortex Media about XDCam workflow and I would recommend this.

Greg Ondera
http://www.Plexus.tv
http://www.SurgeonToday.org


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Ronnie Martin
Re: XDCam Ingest SOS
on Jun 23, 2010 at 4:16:51 pm

Greg Sorry if you misunderstood my post... I was just referring to the transfer from one card to another... I always use the Sony Clip broswer to move the clips on the cards into my system... I guess I missed the point of the original post. The problem of going from one card slot to another has never been a problem for me. My editing platform is Edius 5.12. It is very simple to get the footage from the SXS cards using the Sony clip browser into my system. It opens from within the program and I just make two mouse clicks and they are all in the bin and then on the timleline. No transcoding or converting...

Sorry if I confused anyone.... probablly just need to get some rest been at it way tooo long today.

Take care

Ronnie
http://www.ramtv.tv

Ronnie Martin
Kato Video Productions
http://www.dirtracingvideo.com


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Greg Ondera
Re: XDCam Ingest SOS
on Jun 23, 2010 at 4:20:52 pm

Ahh. And here I just got up from a restful evening. I am sure you don't want to hear that though. Probably my cursory reading practices. I sympathize with you and hope this can be solved.

Greg Ondera
http://www.Plexus.tv
http://www.SurgeonToday.org


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James Miller
Re: XDCam Ingest SOS
on Jun 23, 2010 at 3:36:57 pm

Yeah that's pretty much how I feel. Called the op and left a message asking - I'm running on the theory currently that there is either another card that wasn't given to me - hence the missing subclips - or there really was some type of error on the camera... Because its a couple of clips I'm leaning towards the former.

Thanks for the heads up about clip browser - downloading it now and will start using it henceforth.

I would interrogate the producer but they just left to go to the pub and watch the football stating 'I've wasted half a day on this dogs**t and I'm not wasting any more - advise you don't either'. Deadlines Friday. Nice!


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Craig Seeman
Re: XDCam Ingest SOS
on Jun 23, 2010 at 3:59:48 pm

You can only deal with what the client leaves you. If the issue is on their side then they have to eat the time it takes to fix. If clips are missing you can still import what you have but you have to lay blame (and bill) on them for creating unnecessary problems.

[James Miller] " would interrogate the producer but they just left to go to the pub and watch the football stating 'I've wasted half a day on this dogs**t and I'm not wasting any more - advise you don't either'. Deadlines Friday. Nice!"

Then the deadline delay is their problem. I've become very hard ball with clients these days. Time track the delay. If they're a day late in resolving the problem then the deadline gets pushed back a day. Of course you can still deliver on time but they have to feel the perspiration IMHO.





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Greg Ondera
Re: XDCam Ingest SOS
on Jun 23, 2010 at 4:12:05 pm

Sounds like they forgot to give you a card, and they aren't sounding like the responsibly-minded individuals from that kind of statement.

Greg Ondera
http://www.Plexus.tv
http://www.SurgeonToday.org


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Greg Ondera
Re: XDCam Ingest SOS
on Jun 23, 2010 at 5:54:39 pm

I think you would be surprised how many Windows users have QuickTime. It's everywhere really. But I do agree it would be good to find out first.

The reason I advocate progressive is that whenever anything interlaced goes to the web or gets encoded in any way, which it sounds like it will, it will look fuzzy and soft, even when deinterlacing. Progressive keeps a bold color and crisper look to it, and it is such a difference and very noticeable. I am moving away from interlace entirely myself, but would like to hear reasoning why I should still use it. I even deinterlace my old interlaced programs as masters now.

Also if there is any way you can steer your client to H.264, I would. The quality over WMV is hands over fist much better. And in mp4 form it will play on practically anything. I would pitch for using Telestream's Episode Pro for codecing H.264, although there are several good encoders out there.

So I have a little menu for that, if you want, and some of my formula has impact on WMV files as well, but doesn't entirely translate. If you go to http://www.surgeontoday.org/faq/ and a little over half way down the page under "What are the best practices for preparing a video for upload?" that will tell you what I recommend. Playing with bitrates is the key to testing, but other considerations there should be followed as constants.

Greg Ondera
http://www.Plexus.tv
http://www.SurgeonToday.org


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