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EX1-restore data issue

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Christopher Ennis
EX1-restore data issue
on Apr 7, 2010 at 3:05:34 pm

I have a Sony EX1 and recently while recording, the camera will stop recording. A message on the screen appears and says to restore data. Once I do this, it continues to happen about 30 - 60 seconds into recording. I have switched cards, turn the camera off and then on, switched card slots. Nothing seems to work. has anyone had this problem? I am using the Hoodman adapters w/ SDHC cards.


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1-restore data issue
on Apr 7, 2010 at 3:51:48 pm

Brand of SDHC cards?
Maybe they're bad. I wouldn't risk using failing cards.
Updating to firmware 1.20 tends to make a lot of marginal cards work better.



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mike gorga
Re: EX1-restore data issue
on Apr 7, 2010 at 6:53:03 pm

As the author of a thread below during which I tell of how I lost an entire day's work I can only recommend limiting shooting to SxS cards and backup your keeper takes to a second card in drive B on your EX1.

My problem was with an EX3 and we are now not even going to take the chance of a problem on eject. I simply don't trust it anymore. We will then back up everything on a laptop as well.

Run and gun shoots will be accomplished with our JVC GY-HD200 at least in the near future. Its just too embarrassing and detrimental to client retention to use stuff just because its cool. Coming home with footage is more important.

Mike Gorga, Producer/Director
MEGCOMM Film & Video Prod.
800.816.1884


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1-restore data issue
on Apr 7, 2010 at 7:22:42 pm

I've had my EX1 since Dec 2007. Started using SDHC almost exclusively (SXS only for overcrank) in Jan 2009.

I have NEVER lost a shot.
There is bad card stock just as there is bad tape stock.
There's also badly managed workflows.

In 30 years experience I've found the EX1 more reliable than any tape based camera I've worked with.
There are no drop outs. There are no tape creases. There are no worn record heads or playback heads that result in alignment or tracking issues. The codec doesn't break like HDV either.

You can NOT slap any SDHC card in an expect it to work reliably.



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mike gorga
Re: EX1-restore data issue
on Apr 7, 2010 at 8:05:48 pm

We didn't just throw any old SD car into it. 3 years without even one shot huh?

When a card crashes upon removal from the camera, with the power off, without having removed the card with the red light lit, without having triggering the camera until the red turns green, without removing the SD card from the expresscard reader while in the camera... and without all the other problems novices have with these cameras its difficult to have a "badly managed workflow". The card crashed or the camera crashed the card. Period.

I'm 56, in the business for 33 years and have not had the EX3 long enough (8 months) to make such a claim compared to video or film. Worked with both. Had few problems with either.

+++


"I've had my EX1 since Dec 2007. Started using SDHC almost exclusively (SXS only for overcrank) in Jan 2009.

I have NEVER lost a shot.
There is bad card stock just as there is bad tape stock.
There's also badly managed workflows.

In 30 years experience I've found the EX1 more reliable than any tape based camera I've worked with.
There are no drop outs. There are no tape creases. There are no worn record heads or playback heads that result in alignment or tracking issues. The codec doesn't break like HDV either.

You can NOT slap any SDHC card in an expect it to work reliab"

Mike Gorga, Producer/Director
MEGCOMM Film & Video Prod.
800.816.1884


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1-restore data issue
on Apr 7, 2010 at 8:37:30 pm

33 years and you've never encountered bad tape stock?

Given the frequency of issues with both tape stock and camera record heads, nothing matches the reliability I've had with EX. Nothing even comes close.

All issues have a cause. It's either the card, the adaptor or the camera. A bad card doesn't make the format unreliable. It makes the card unreliable. In fact just as I've seen tape stock manufacturing change without overt label changes, the same thing is happening with SDHC cards as techniques and, more likely, the controllers built into the cards change.

Name the specific brand of the card and see how many head slaps (one way or the other) appear on this thread.

Personally I would not trust tape over a good SDHC card and I wouldn't trust HDV or XDCAM as a codec.



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mike gorga
Re: EX1-restore data issue
on Apr 7, 2010 at 8:49:15 pm

"33 years and you've never encountered bad tape stock? "


I don't remember writing that.


"Given the frequency of issues with both tape stock and camera record heads, nothing matches the reliability I've had with EX. Nothing even comes close."


Well thats good for you, but others have had different experiences.


"All issues have a cause. It's either the card, the adaptor or the camera. A bad card doesn't make the format unreliable. It makes the card unreliable. In fact just as I've seen tape stock manufacturing change without overt label changes, the same thing is happening with SDHC cards as techniques and, more likely, the controllers built into the cards change."


When you lose a card you lose the day! I've only ever lost one shoot day on tape, 3/4-sp in about 1990. I was about to run backups and during the rewind process (we never rewound in the field) apparetly something happened that scratched 3-4 Umatic 20's.


"Name the specific brand of the card and see how many head slaps (one way or the other) appear on this thread."


Sandisk 16gb cards are what we're using. They were recommended by M+R, the Expresscard reader company down under.


"Personally I would not trust tape over a good SDHC card and I wouldn't trust HDV or XDCAM as a codec."

The EX1 and EX3 are XDCAM products.

Mike Gorga, Producer/Director
MEGCOMM Film & Video Prod.
800.816.1884


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Michael Slowe
Re: EX1-restore data issue
on Apr 7, 2010 at 9:00:18 pm

Why oh why don't people do what was originally envisaged by Sony and use the Sony S X S cards? Post after post complaining about lost media and it's always from a non Sony card. OK, they're expensive, so are the cameras but it's all relative. Easy to download files on location, about ten minutes per 16 GB's, surely that time is available every two or three hours depending on how many cards you have. You shouldn't need too many and they will take countless record and deletes.

Michael Slowe


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mike gorga
Re: EX1-restore data issue
on Apr 7, 2010 at 9:14:41 pm

Thats the plan from now on Mike. I don't trust this other stuff and really don't fully trust the SxS.

Mike Gorga, Producer/Director
MEGCOMM Film & Video Prod.
800.816.1884


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1-restore data issue
on Apr 7, 2010 at 9:31:27 pm

[mike gorga] "Sandisk 16gb cards are what we're using."

Sandisk Ultra II Class 4 have been reported as unreliable. Extremes are reliable. With firmware 1.20 (EX1) they would both be reliable.

[mike gorga] ""Personally I would not trust tape over a good SDHC card and I wouldn't trust HDV or XDCAM as a codec."

The EX1 and EX3 are XDCAM products. "


The JVC camera you mentioned is a tape based HDV camera.

[mike gorga] "Well thats good for you, but others have had different experiences. "

All the experiences point to bad SDHC cards. People cutting corners on which cards they use or manufacturers changing some aspect of the card which reduced compatibility.

[mike gorga] "When you lose a card you lose the day! "

Most issues people report are media restore or resurrecting corrupted clips because of damaged metadata.

In fact I think yours is the only issue I can recall in which clips checked fine in the camera and the card was unreadable immediately after removing. Whatever happened seems unique.





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mike gorga
Re: EX1-restore data issue
on Apr 7, 2010 at 9:42:43 pm

I am aware the JVC camera is HDV. Not sure I understand here.

The Sandisk Ultra II High Speed 15mb/s were recommended by M+R when I got their card readers. I bought 6 of them.



Mike Gorga, Producer/Director
MEGCOMM Film & Video Prod.
800.816.1884


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1-restore data issue
on Apr 7, 2010 at 10:11:25 pm

[mike gorga] "I am aware the JVC camera is HDV. Not sure I understand here. "
Codec is worse than XDCAM. That's my point.

[mike gorga] "The Sandisk Ultra II High Speed 15mb/s were recommended by M+R when I got their card readers. I bought 6 of them. "

Yes, they were recommending them after people had already been reporting issues. If you search this forum you'll find a fair number of Sandisk Ultra II issues. At one time Transcend Class 6 were recommended but at some point they became unreliable too.

Right now I'm seeing ATP Class 6 and Sandisk Extreme Class 10 and the latter, with the new firmware seem to be closest to SxS of any of the SxS cards.



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mike gorga
Re: EX1-restore data issue
on Apr 7, 2010 at 10:20:27 pm

I think I have gotten to the bottom of OUR problem, at least. Can't comment further. It turns out the cards we have are Sandisk Ultra II Class 4. The Cow is deep and vast and I never saw the thread on the problems with the class 4 cards.

I'm going to pick up a couple SxS cards and then a few class 2 Sandisks for slot to slot backups in the field and give this another shot with a bunch of tests before taking this rig out into the field again.





"[mike gorga] "I am aware the JVC camera is HDV. Not sure I understand here. "
Codec is worse than XDCAM. That's my point.

[mike gorga] "The Sandisk Ultra II High Speed 15mb/s were recommended by M+R when I got their card readers. I bought 6 of them. "

Yes, they were recommending them after people had already been reporting issues. If you search this forum you'll find a fair number of Sandisk Ultra II issues. At one time Transcend Class 6 were recommended but at some point they became unreliable too.

Right now I'm seeing ATP Class 6 and Sandisk Extreme Class 10 and the latter, with the new firmware seem to be closest to SxS of any of the SxS cards. "

Mike Gorga, Producer/Director
MEGCOMM Film & Video Prod.
800.816.1884


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Marek Bilski
Re: EX1-restore data issue
on Apr 8, 2010 at 1:03:01 pm

I'd like to restate that memory cards are not all built equally. Failure will happen regardless of what memory card you use if they are mishandled or not used appropriately. eg If we keep pressing the power button on your pc to shut down, you will eventually get the blue screen of death...
Memory cards are no different...
There are a lot of new users which have to progressed from tape to solid state recording...and we all have to basically learn a new workflow, how to handle and choose the appropriate memory card based on sound advice...
Just because you don't get a media error, this is no guarantee of the long term durability.

MxM Express


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