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jim stamos
nanoflash experts
on Apr 2, 2010 at 3:00:36 am

from what ive read, connecting the nanoflash to the ex1r will give you the option of recording to compact flash at 50/100/200 mbs.
i was telling a friend this and she is convinced that the inner workings of the camera only allow 35mbs out of it and that is that.she also asks why would sony make a cam that records at 35mbs and allow the option to connect a nanoflash , thats its not in their best interest to do this. i need a detailed xplanation of how you get the true recording at the higher bitrates and that there isnt some sort of limit.
thanks


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Don Greening
Re: nanoflash experts
on Apr 2, 2010 at 5:32:51 am

[jim stamos] " was telling a friend this and she is convinced that the inner workings of the camera only allow 35mbs out of it "

The camera records to the memory cards in MPEG2 @ 4:2:0 colour space at a maximum of 35 Mbits sec. When hooking up an external recorder to the SDI port the camera bypasses its own compression stage and outputs an uncompressed 4:2:2 stream at a substantially higher bit rate. I have no idea what that number is.

- Don



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Jeremy Doyle
Re: nanoflash experts
on Apr 2, 2010 at 3:11:37 pm

[Don Greening] "outputs an uncompressed 4:2:2 stream at a substantially higher bit rate. I have no idea what that number is. "

uncompressed 4:2:2 HD out of SDI is 1.5Gbit/s and that is why you need dual link to get to 4:4:4 color space.

HDCAM SR is the closest you can get to uncompressed at 880 Mbit/s

At least this is what I was told at a sony seminar last week.




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Aaron Leong
Re: nanoflash experts
on Apr 2, 2010 at 5:41:55 am

The nanoflash bypasses the cameras compression to the cards. The HD/SDI out from the camera acquires its information from the sensors, which is why the Nanoflash can record upwards of 35mbps.

18mbps 4:2:0
25mbps 4:2:0
35mpbs 4:2:0
50mbps 4:2:2
100mbps 4:2:2
140mbps 4:2:2
180mbps 4:2:2
220mbps 4:2:2 I-Frame
280mbps 4:2:2 I-Frame

Check out convergent-design.com. They've got all the answers you're looking for.

Personally, I think it's awesome to be able to get that kind of quality out of the EX series cameras and I've had nothing but good experiences with the unit. Thanks Michael Palmer for the recommendation!!



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Michael Slowe
Re: nanoflash experts
on Apr 2, 2010 at 3:01:12 pm

Great, a woman who is actually proved wrong! I hope you tell her, the opportunity only very rarely arises.

Michael Slowe


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Rafael Amador
Re: nanoflash experts
on Apr 2, 2010 at 3:24:52 pm

[jim stamos] " why would sony make a cam that records at 35mbs and allow the option to connect a nanoflash , thats its not in their best interest to do this."
Manufactures tends to be short of data rate.
The EX-1 records only 36Mbps, but the SONYs XDCAM 422, four times more expensive, records just 50Mbps.
Not only the EX-1 is benefited by the NANO. There are many people using it with the big SONYs, to bay pass these short 50Mbps. The picture from these 2/3' CMOS recorded at 100Mbps is amazing.
Rafael



http://www.nagavideo.com


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Bill Ravens
Re: nanoflash experts
on Apr 3, 2010 at 12:21:45 pm

I have to be amused at the parochial attitude that many videographers take to technology. To add to Rafael's post, the XDCAM EX uses a hardware compression codec that is limited to 35mbps bitrates. This is what the camera uses to record to the flash cards. As others have said, the EX1's HD-SDI output bypasses the camera's internal codec and feeds the signal out the HD-SDI port according to HD-SDI signal specifications, which are 4:2:2 YUV at bitrates up to 1.5 Gbps. The nanoflash recorder uses the Sony HD 422 codec, which has HD-SDI recording capability far exceeding that of the Sony EX codec. For the price of a consumer camera, a videographer can now record to professional specifications accepted by National Geographic.



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jim stamos
Re: nanoflash experts
on Apr 3, 2010 at 10:19:13 pm

thanks bill,
that being the case, i cant afford 2 ex1rs or the new ex shoulder mount to be announced, i will proabably go with the new one, if there is one or an ex1r and the nxcam for my bcam. other than the 1/3inch chips on the nxcam, i should be able to get a good match using it with the nanoflash along with one of the other two.
input?


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jim stamos
Re: nanoflash experts
on Apr 5, 2010 at 6:37:51 pm

heres the response from my friend on this whole issue.

After some extensive research, conversations with 4 broadcast engineers (Sony, Ikegami, Thompson, and one freelance engineer), there are some basic electronic issues that I need to make sure that you understand. Any camera’s block must process the signal through pre-amps and circuits before that signal can be released through any port or recorded onto any recording medium internal or external to a camera. It is true that before the signal is recorded it is uncompressed by that camera’s standard; i.e. it is based on the size of its block and its number of scan lines as well as its internal S/N ratio settings.
That being said the EX3’s Exmor chip does A-To-D conversion and noise reduction on the chip so the signal appears quite clean through the assigned rear HD-SDI port. Be aware that this camera uses PsF. which is a scheme to deliver a progressive frame from 2 interlaced frames. The nanoFlash from Convergent Designs records in either MXF or QuickTime. Both of these are schemes which apply compression prior to any recording.
So in essence everyone is right; your bloggers, you, the sales people and me….except, none of this is lossless or true uncompressed. I grow tired of reading such nonsense. True lossless, uncompressed HD is 4:4:4 at 1.45Gbits/s; which none of the hardware we has discussed in this model can produce or record.
So will the nanoFlash make a better recording off the SDI port in HD-SDI mode than the SxS internal recording system?

Yes – Both results are Long GOP with an XDCAM codec, however the nanoFlash can exceed the Sony internal recording scheme by a 40-60% margin at it’s highest setting : 220 – 280 Mbps, 4:2:2 I-Frame XDCAM record, or in the Long GOP record setting you will see 20-30% improvement at 140 – 180 Mbps.





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Rafael Amador
Re: nanoflash experts
on Apr 5, 2010 at 7:53:36 pm

[jim stamos] "Yes – Both results are Long GOP with an XDCAM codec, however the nanoFlash can exceed the Sony internal recording scheme by a 40-60% margin at it’s highest setting : 220 – 280 Mbps, 4:2:2 I-Frame XDCAM record, or in the Long GOP record setting you will see 20-30% improvement at 140 – 180 Mbps. "
Very goods points, but this one a bit confusing.
If you are talking about the EX-1/3, just by recording in the NANO at 50 Mbps (422) the difference is substantial. Makes no much sense to compare a 420 with a 422 codec.
At high data rate, we could say that the NANO is "virtually Uncompress".
Sheer 8b Unc makes files less than a 10% bigger.
rafael



http://www.nagavideo.com


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Mark Hayes
Re: nanoflash experts
on Apr 6, 2010 at 2:46:19 am

Did you hear that they will actually announce a shoulder mounted EX camera at NAB? There are some rumors floating around but I was wondering if anyone heard anything concrete.



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