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White balance and lighting

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Kent Beeson
White balance and lighting
on Feb 24, 2010 at 12:55:59 am

Hi guys

Just wondering about lighting and white balance on this situation - full day light coming in through massive windows, with these lights overhead...what would you do re: white balance and lighting? Using EX1R.




Thanks

K
http://www.effectivevideo.net


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Richard Crowley
Re: White balance and lighting
on Feb 24, 2010 at 2:38:48 am

I have a similar situation coming up with a massive array of windows letting in lots of 5600K++ sky light. I only have enough color correction/ND film for part of one window.

So I was going to experiment with getting some orange double-knit polyester fabric which is just about the cheapest fabric at the cloth store. The fabric is semi-transparent, so it will block maybe 2-3 stops of absolute level, and the orange color will bring the very high color temp outside down to something more compatible with the tungsten interior lighting.


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David Jones
Re: White balance and lighting
on Feb 24, 2010 at 4:40:40 am

Hi Kent,

Unless you have total control of the windows, you're best bet is to white balance near the windows and let the interior lighting be what they will. I've had to do this many times.

Just remember: sunlight and daylight will ALWAYS overpower tungsten lighting or, at best sneak its way in :-)

Best,

Dave J


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Kent Beeson
Re: White balance and lighting
on Feb 24, 2010 at 4:59:39 am

Very interesting - would've never known to do what you just suggested. Appreciate your reply.

Thanks

K
http://www.effectivevideo.net


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Kent Beeson
Re: White balance and lighting
on Feb 24, 2010 at 5:02:52 am

I meant the orange cloth business in my reply above - but thanks also David.

One time in the past I white balanced under similar conditions under the tungsten and the flesh tones were very orange, horrible...so I needed other pro advice this time...thanks.


Thanks

K
http://www.effectivevideo.net


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Derek Reich
Re: White balance and lighting
on Feb 24, 2010 at 4:33:59 am

It looks predominantly daylight, so your balance is certainly going to be on that end of the spectrum. Depending on the overheads (they could be tungsten, halogen, or maybe even fluro) you are either going to have to live with some warm hues under the lights with a near daylight balance, (probably what would look best) or risk blue hue near the windows with a warmer balance for the lights. Another option is to replace the lamps in the overhead fixtures with lamps which have a closer to daylight balance or gel the overheads with blue gels. It's hard to tell from the photo, but those overheads already look like they're on the 'cool' side of color temperature. You may be better off than you know... get a balance directly under those lights if you can, and determine the temperature. Then get one near the windows about the same time of day as your shoot (and hope the clouds will be the same) See how far apart you are and go from there with respect to dealing with the overheads. Good luck! It's hard to find a 'perfect' balance in situations like this, but you'll likely find one which works.... the fact that you are thinking about this ahead of time is a good sign!
Good luck-


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Kent Beeson
Re: White balance and lighting
on Feb 24, 2010 at 5:06:06 am

That's a great and simple idea - blue gel the overheads (if I can), very good solution....thanks very much to everyone for helpful thoughts...good forum here.


Thanks

K
http://www.effectivevideo.net


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Steve Wargo
Re: White balance and lighting
on Feb 24, 2010 at 1:27:33 pm

Try a preset white balance of 4600 using the picture profile. from there, adjust 100 at a time till it looks correct. Make sure you look at a monitor in a room that is not flooded with this room's light, like a room with no windows.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .

Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards


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Ronnie Martin
Re: White balance and lighting
on Feb 24, 2010 at 2:39:48 pm

Unless you are going to do a lot of camera moves Panning and so on, I would use a white warm card to WB near the subjects position. Now if this is part of a bigger project with many clips from different lighting conditions, it will be a job for the color correction properties of your editing software.....

Good Luck

Ronnie Martin
http://www.dirtracingvideo.com

Ronnie Martin
Kato Video Productions
http://www.dirtracingvideo.com


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Kent Beeson
Re: White balance and lighting
on Feb 24, 2010 at 5:11:57 pm

Good advice, thanks...I'll try that re: PP at 4600 then play with it by 100's. Also, if I went the route of gelling the lights (regardless of whether they were tungsten or otherwise, would this bring the lights to match the outdoors?

http://www.filmtools.com/litepanels-ringlite-single-filter-full-ctbl-rlc-f-...

Thanks

K
http://www.effectivevideo.net


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David Jones
Re: White balance and lighting
on Feb 24, 2010 at 6:08:25 pm

Gelling the lights to match the outdoor light will work, but you need to know the color temp. of the light you're gelling (you can get that from the camera).

You may not want to gel them to match exactly, though. They should give off at least some of their natural color temp; even our eyes see differences in degrees kalvin.

Keep in mind, the outdoor color temp. will change throughout the day as well.

Dave J


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Kent Beeson
Re: White balance and lighting
on Feb 24, 2010 at 6:11:16 pm

"You may not want to gel them to match exactly, though. They should give off at least some of their natural color temp; even our eyes see differences in degrees kalvin. "

You're right, I needn't be too zealous...


Thanks

K
http://www.effectivevideo.net


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Derek Reich
Re: White balance and lighting
on Feb 25, 2010 at 1:50:03 am

If you can get the lights gelled to give you about 5000K you should be fine. The lights may be on the warm side compared to the windows (especially if it's a cloudy day) but that usually looks better than anything showing up cool (blue) coming in from the windows. Try some different gels and see what looks best, and as David mentioned unless you get lucky and have an overcast day, your light will change throughout the day anyway. Direct sunlight will range in the 5600K+/- range in the middle of the day, warmer (lower numbers if it's clear out) in the early morning and late afternoon while the sun's still visible. Cloudy or overcast days will range in the 6500K-7500K range. Keep in mind many cameras give inconsistent kelvin numbers for the same balance, so don't worry if you don't get 'exact' daylight kelvin numbers like 5600K. Just look at the image on a monitor you trust, and if you're close no worries. (you can do a lot in post to correct color and balance anyway, but why make extra work if you can avoid it? Just know that if you're off a little bit, not a big deal to fix)
I always play it safe and balance for the coolest light (highest kelvin temp) and let other light sources 'warm' things up. This usually works okay, except when the discrepancy between kelvin temps is more than about 2000K-3000K. If you can hit something around 5000K-6000K with the lights looking normal to slightly warm, you should be okay with whatever happens outside.
Good luck! You might also check and see exactly what kind of bulbs the light fixtures use. If you're really lucky, you might be able to find daylight balanced bulbs and just replace them! Remember to check what the balance is already coming from those lights... you may already be golden if they're in the 4500K+ range.


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OSCAR DARIO JIMENEZ ESCRUCERIA
Re: White balance and lighting
on Mar 23, 2010 at 1:33:58 am

Hi.
Where can I find preset XDCAM already created for PP of xdca EX3.
Thanks


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