FORUMS: list search recent posts

catering to CRT vs LCD viewers

COW Forums : Sony XDCAM - EX & Related

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Bob O'Brien
catering to CRT vs LCD viewers
on Dec 3, 2009 at 1:57:36 pm

The latest numbers I've seen show that more than 2/3rds of US homes today have at least 1 LCD or plasma set (far fewer actually have the HD connection though). Consequently, many viewers of our work are still watching on CRTs.

I'm curious - how many of you shooters still check the "Look" of your work on a CRT? And, do you make camera setting decisions with potential CRT viewing in mind? (In regards to progressive vs. interlaced & shutter speed).

As an example, although I normally shoot corporate work, I had the opportunity recently to do a 2-camera shoot (1-EX3/1-EX1) of a musical my kids were involved in. I was able to shoot some tests during the dress rehearsals. I compared 1080i60 & 1080P30. The 1080P30 won out. Then I experimented with shutter speed - 1/60th and 1/100th at 1080P30. Then I went through my normal down-converting process in FCP and output to DVD.

On my MacBook Pro and on my home LCD, the 1/100th footage looked awesome - nice and crisp, but with just enough motion blur still present. On a CRT, however, the extra crispness that the 1/100 shutter provided added way too many fine lines which looked awful. The 1/60th footage looked much better on the CRT, so that's the setting I went with.

In having spent the last hour or so reading through past posts here concerning shutter speed, I noticed that many of you shoot with a higher shutter speed - 1/250, 1/2000. I cannot imagine that this footage would be watchable on a CRT.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

Bob



CAMERAS
Sony EX3 & Sony DXC637/PVV3 Betacam-SP

PORTABLE EDITING
*MacBook Pro - 2.33Ghz - 2Gb RAM
*Matrox MXO / 23" Cinema Display

DESKTOP
*DualG5 2Ghz w/2.5Gb RAM
*UL4D SCSI Card
*HMV800 DualMax RAID0
*AJA IO
*Sony 2800

SOFTWARE
*OSX10.4.11, QT 7.5, FCP 6.0.4, Livetype 2.1.3, Soundtrack Pro 2.0.2, DVDSP4.2.1, Adobe CS3 Prod Suite


Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: catering to CRT vs LCD viewers
on Dec 3, 2009 at 3:04:21 pm

I don't know where you get those high shutter speeds. I rarely shoot anything over 1/60 unless I'm dying to see Saving Private Ryan like staccato motion effects.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera! Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
Call Box Training now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II, Canon 7D, and Panasonic DVX100.


Return to posts index

Bob O'Brien
Re: catering to CRT vs LCD viewers
on Dec 3, 2009 at 3:12:55 pm

Yeah, I agree. I was surprised when reading through the posts that some like to shoot sports at those higher shutter speeds.

CAMERAS
Sony EX3 & Sony DXC637/PVV3 Betacam-SP

PORTABLE EDITING
*MacBook Pro - 2.33Ghz - 2Gb RAM
*Matrox MXO / 23" Cinema Display

DESKTOP
*DualG5 2Ghz w/2.5Gb RAM
*UL4D SCSI Card
*HMV800 DualMax RAID0
*AJA IO
*Sony 2800

SOFTWARE
*OSX10.4.11, QT 7.5, FCP 6.0.4, Livetype 2.1.3, Soundtrack Pro 2.0.2, DVDSP4.2.1, Adobe CS3 Prod Suite


Return to posts index


Michael Palmer
Re: catering to CRT vs LCD viewers
on Dec 3, 2009 at 3:26:05 pm

Bob,

Well I don't have the answer, and typically when shooting I only inquire to the needs of the client as to where this material will be used and if I need to protect 4:3 for SD. I must say I never really think about the SD world anymore.

I couldn't imagine these shutter speeds making any difference to the original digital HD material that was down convert to digital SD material. The timebase from each camera is the same.
I wonder if another DVD player/CRT has the same result.

Is the SD downconvert Progressive or Interlaced?

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


Return to posts index

Bob O'Brien
Re: catering to CRT vs LCD viewers
on Dec 3, 2009 at 3:42:31 pm

My SD down-convert is always progressive.

I have spent hours trying to get a good looking interlaced down-convert from my EX3 footage in FCP and have had no luck. Regardless of whether I shoot interlaced or progressive, it always looks best as a progressive DVD. I am working on a MacBook Pro and do not have any external devices to try a hardware conversion, so it is always done in FCP or in Compressor.

Thanks.

Bob

CAMERAS
Sony EX3 & Sony DXC637/PVV3 Betacam-SP

PORTABLE EDITING
*MacBook Pro - 2.33Ghz - 2Gb RAM
*Matrox MXO / 23" Cinema Display

DESKTOP
*DualG5 2Ghz w/2.5Gb RAM
*UL4D SCSI Card
*HMV800 DualMax RAID0
*AJA IO
*Sony 2800

SOFTWARE
*OSX10.4.11, QT 7.5, FCP 6.0.4, Livetype 2.1.3, Soundtrack Pro 2.0.2, DVDSP4.2.1, Adobe CS3 Prod Suite


Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: catering to CRT vs LCD viewers
on Dec 4, 2009 at 12:03:06 am

Why would you ever want an interlaced 'downconvert?" it's totally not needed for any sort of current display. All TVs can show 24p material from DVD as is.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera! Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
Call Box Training now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II, Canon 7D, and Panasonic DVX100.


Return to posts index


Bob O'Brien
Re: catering to CRT vs LCD viewers
on Dec 4, 2009 at 1:05:10 am

Noah,

I have never shot 24P before. The judder has always bothered me. Perhaps I should experiment a bit with it.

I think my interlace thinking is just a hold-over from my 20 years of shooting betacam. Interlace SD DVDs just always looked better to me on CRTs.

I have only been shooting HD for a few years now - HDX900 and now the EX3 - and just about everything I shoot is destined to standard def. output. At first, I shot everything 1080i - thinking that it would be the best solution for those still watching on a CRT. Time after time though after shooting the project, I found that I had to create a progressive SD DVD for it to look good. So now, I shoot just about everything in 30P. (If it's going to a progressive SD DVD, why not, right?)

I guess this brings me back to why I posted this in the first place. Are people still producing interlaced SD DVDs to cater to those who still have CRTs? I may have been a bit conservative in making the switch, but to me, it is just in the last couple years that the pendullum has clearly swung over to shooting everything progressively.

Thanks for your time.

Bob


Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: catering to CRT vs LCD viewers
on Dec 4, 2009 at 1:32:04 am

You should try it-just about everything narrative you see in the movies or on TV these days is either shot on film at 24 frames per second or on high-definition at 24p. So I'd suggest it's a great idea to learn it.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera! Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
Call Box Training now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II, Canon 7D, and Panasonic DVX100.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]