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4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?

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Chris Babbitt
4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Nov 30, 2009 at 8:31:59 pm

I'm about to edit a project that we shot at 720/60p EX, but it will be scaled down to 4x3 SD during editing. Doug Jensen on his DVD "Mastering the EX-1" recommends editing in a DV sequence, and, I must say that the result on his DVD looks pretty good, but I was thinking that doing it in a Pro-Res SD sequence might be better. What do you think?



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Craig Seeman
Re: 4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Nov 30, 2009 at 8:44:15 pm

I'd use a standard def sequence but not DV. You can certainly do an 8 bit uncompressed or Pro Res standard def sequence. I've done this for Broadcast spot delivery in SD.



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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: 4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Nov 30, 2009 at 10:26:54 pm

Second that, I see no reason whatsoever to use a DV sequence. Yuck. All your renders would be DV, that'd be a sin. I use ProRes SD.

Cf


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Chris Babbitt
Re: 4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Nov 30, 2009 at 10:42:51 pm

Yeah, that makes the most sense. I've been fooling around with it, and I can't seem to find the right combination of settings. In the sequence settings, I have selected Pro=Res 422, square pixels, Field Dominance/None, but I am befuddled as to what to choose for Frame Size / Aspect ratio. NTSC 4:3 or CCIR 601 NTSC, Etc., Etc? I'm getting some strangely elongated images on my monitor.

Also, no matter what I do, I'm getting the red bar, so I can't play my timeline without rendering. If I edit in a DV sequence, I at least get some realtime. Now, If I start with a DV sequence, and just change the compressor to Pro-Res, that seems to work pretty well.



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Michael Palmer
Re: 4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Nov 30, 2009 at 10:57:01 pm

Chris I believe the 16:9 SD is something like 843x486, If you need 4:3 (720x486) then you will need the crop or letterbox.

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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Chris Babbitt
Re: 4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Nov 30, 2009 at 11:03:56 pm

If I load the preset for ProRes422 NTSC, the video displays properly in 4:3 and I get some realtime (green bar), but the preset adds DV properties (lower field interlaced and rectangular pixel aspect ratio), so it's essentially a DV sequence except it's rendering in ProRes, I guess.



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Noah Kadner
Re: 4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Dec 1, 2009 at 2:36:24 am

I'd cut HD and when all is complete, then drop into an SD sequence and render out. That way your client gets a free HD version they never know when they may use and you have less rendering as you cut.

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera! Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
Call Box Training now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II, Canon 7D, and Panasonic DVX100.


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Craig Seeman
Re: 4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Dec 1, 2009 at 2:46:08 am

I vaguely remember doing that once and it made a mess of my motion graphics and titles. Maybe I did something wrong. At least part of it had to do with 16:9 HD vs letterbox in a 4:3 SD frame. Suddenly you have all this black on the top and bottom and one has to build graphics with that in mind that one doesn't do in a 16:9 frame. Of course editing a "clean" HD version might help but I remember motion graphics were impacted as well.



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Chris Babbitt
Re: 4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Dec 1, 2009 at 3:06:32 am

It is being delivered in 4:3. I am cropping and re-framing. No point in doing it in 16:9. It was not shot with that in mind.



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Don Greening
Re: 4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Dec 1, 2009 at 5:17:42 am

[Chris Babbitt] "I have selected Pro=Res 422, square pixels, Field Dominance/None, but I am befuddled as to what to choose for Frame Size / Aspect ratio. NTSC 4:3 or CCIR 601 NTSC, Etc., Etc?"

If you want to make a 4:3 version of your HD project select the following preset parameters:

Apple ProRes 422 NTSC 48 kHz
Sequence Frame Size: 720x480 plus change aspect ratio to: NTSC DV (3:2)
Pixel aspect ratio should be: NTSC - CCIR 601/DV (720x480) anamorphic unchecked
Field Dominance - none
Editing timebase - 29.97
Compressor - Apple ProRes

Create the sequence and drop your EX stuff right in. Just say "no" to the dialogue 'match sequence setting to the EX clips'. Since your sequence is 4:3 your 16:9 clips will automatically be centre-punched to create your 4:3 version.

Edit, render and export using "current" settings.

- Don




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Chris Babbitt
Re: 4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Dec 3, 2009 at 6:20:49 pm

Don,

This is working out fine using your settings except that with the frame rate set to 29.97, some pans and especially moves on a few still photos in the project are not at all smooth. The video was shot in 60p, so if I change the sequence setting from 29.97 to 59.94 that cures the problem. Or,leaving the frame rate at 29.97, but changing the sequence to interlaced (lower field) also seems to work. Are either of these solutions going to be OK when I go to DVD? I must admit that I still don't fully understand all this stuff. It was so much easier for me when everything was DVCAM.



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Don Greening
Re: 4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Dec 3, 2009 at 6:38:54 pm

Hi Chris,

I wasn't aware that you shot in 60p. If you mentioned that in an earlier post I must have missed that. Just use 59.94 as your editing time base then. Avoid changing to an interlaced timeline since your footage is progressive. 60p will be fine for MPEG2 compression for DVD.

- Don


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Chris Babbitt
Re: 4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Dec 3, 2009 at 6:58:42 pm

Thank you sir. And thank you for being so prompt.



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Don Greening
Re: 4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Dec 3, 2009 at 7:16:09 pm

[Chris Babbitt] "And thank you for being so prompt. "

Your welcome, although I didn't have much choice. I just happened to be walking by my laptop and there was an audible alarm going off along with red flashing letters on the screen that said:

"Chris Babbitt wants something!!"

- Don



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Rafael Amador
Re: 4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Dec 1, 2009 at 6:02:03 am

Hi Chris,
The codec is not important but for having RT while editing, and in the moment of exporting.
Just make your sequence 720x480 because is going to DVD,
When exporting, of course, NEVER export to DV.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Chris Babbitt
Re: 4x3 SD / DV or Pro-Res Sequence?
on Dec 1, 2009 at 4:14:10 pm

Thank you guys.



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