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Do SDHC cards really work?

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Brent Critchfield
Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 3, 2009 at 3:16:44 am

I've had my EX-3 for about 2 months now, and have had no end of problems with my SDHC card setup. I've got the Transcend Class 6 cards (red stripe) in AFT adapters. I'll spare you the details, but I've had problems with cards and with adapters. I currently have one pair that gives me media restore errors every time I use it, and one pair that seems to work well. Moving the "good" card to the "bad" adapter doesn't work, and neither does moving the "bad" card to the "good" adapter.

My biggest problem with all of this though is the transfer speeds onto the computer. Even with the "good" card and adapter, 45 mins of footage can easily take 1 hr or longer to transfer onto my MBP through the expresscard slot, which completely defeats the purpose of shooting tapeless in the first place.

Obviously this isn't going to work long-term. So my question is, do I ditch this solution completely and invest the big bucks in Sony SxS cards, or do I give it another shot with Hoodman, MXR or some other setup? Is there ANY non-sony solution out there that works reliably?


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Michael Palmer
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 3, 2009 at 3:37:24 am

Before you go dump your hard earned money into SxS cards you have another alternative. Besides the ability to save money on media you could also create near uncompressed quality files.
I'm talking about investing into the Convergent Design's Nano Flash and using affordable compact flash memory cards in place of those pricey SxS cards. I just purchased 64 gig CF cards for under $300 each. now that is worth your time to click on this link.
http://www.convergent-design.com/

http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?store=dvnation&product_name=Photo...

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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Craig Seeman
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 3, 2009 at 5:01:50 am

Recent Transcend cards are not to be trusted
ATP ProMax have been reliable for everyone testing them.
http://www.media2u.co.uk/blog/?p=40



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Ron Pestes
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 3, 2009 at 6:10:09 pm

I have been using the Transcend 32 gig card (red stripe) and Hoodman adapter for over a month with no problems.

Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2
Sony EX-3
MacBook Pro


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Barry Bishop
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 3, 2009 at 6:39:26 pm

I have been using the sandisk ultra II for about 8months without any problem. The sony card that came with the camera is already dead :( I just purchased the Matrox MX02 LE to get 4:2:2 out of the camera should be arriving this week. Convergence was just too pricey for me.


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Chris Babbitt
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 3, 2009 at 10:19:42 pm

WHAT?
The SxS card is Dead?



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Barry Bishop
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 3, 2009 at 10:25:35 pm

Yup, I can read it using the express card slot on my macpro but when I insert it into the camera it gives an error. Its just useless. I tried reformatting it through the computer but it still doesnt work.

Barry
Associate Web Producer/ Video Editor


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Craig Seeman
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 3, 2009 at 10:39:53 pm

Reformat in camera only.



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Barry Bishop
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 3, 2009 at 10:44:43 pm

Any thoughts on how to recover? Or is it just useless at this point

Barry
Associate Web Producer/ Video Editor


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Craig Seeman
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 4, 2009 at 12:38:42 am

Recover? Video from the card? Get it to record again in the camera?
Put it in the camera and reformat.
"error" is rather generic so I don't know what you mean.
Format in the camera please.



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Barry Bishop
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 4, 2009 at 1:27:13 am

it says Media Error (cannot use media A). The same error occurs when I try to play it, as well as record on it. It will not let me format the disk in the camera.

Barry
Associate Web Producer/ Video Editor


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Craig Seeman
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 4, 2009 at 4:33:05 am

Pull it out and put it back in immediately and try again. That may prevent the error from appearing again.
If it's not saying something like Unrecognized Media, then it's seeing the card.

If the above doesn't work, try using "Update" in the menu (forgot exactly where it is).



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Barry Bishop
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 6, 2009 at 7:09:32 am

Couldnt find update at all in the camera, and I googled and went through it. Can you please give further instruction?

Barry
Associate Web Producer/ Video Editor


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Craig Seeman
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 6, 2009 at 2:13:36 pm

On EX1 firmware must be 1.11 and up and is part of the EX3 from the start. There's no mention of it in the EX1 manual. I believe it's specifically there to fix issues on the card such a metadata.

I don't remember where it is exactly in the menu but I think it was in the "other" menu where such things as clip numbering exists. It won't be there unless you have the appropriate firmware though.

If the camera isn't saying "unrecognized media" then I believe the card can be fixed.



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Jordan Dwyer
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 5, 2009 at 11:08:05 am

Just a thought about the faulty SxS card have you by any chance formatted in the incorrect format on your computer. Correct me if i am wrong but i believe it should be the FAT format option. However you should never format on the computer just use the camera it's safer. And if you are using SDHC cards then try to avoid formatting all together and just go to clip , delete all clips in the menu.

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Brent Critchfield
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 4, 2009 at 11:29:59 pm

The nanoFlash would be a great solution at a lower price point. Unfortunately at $3K I'm cheaper to buy 32GB Sony SxS cards.

So Craig mentions the ATP ProMAX, and Ron mentions the Hoodman adapter. Do these seem to be the best products at this point? Would this likely be a reliable combination?

What about the transfer speeds I'm getting into the computer? Is this normal for an SDHC setup, or should I be seeing speeds closer to what I'm getting with the Sony card? Would this likely improve with an ATP/Hoodman setup?


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Craig Seeman
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 5, 2009 at 12:05:56 am

http://mxmexpress.com/
They are the makers of the Hoodman card.
MxM and Hoodman are the same.
I believe MxR is too.

Depending on your setup it's about half the transfer speed of SxS.



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Brent Critchfield
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 5, 2009 at 12:43:15 am

For general information, I just got off the phone with one of the tech guys from Hoodman. They're getting ready to release a new adapter that is significantly faster than the current version (he didn't have an official ETA yet, he was going to call the guys in Australia and find out). In testing yesterday they were able to sustain full 60fps overcranking for 2 mins.

At this point I'm probably looking at the Hoodman card and adapter. It's a little bit more than the ATP, but at least the manufacturer will stand behind it and support it, which is worth the little bit of extra $$ to me.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 5, 2009 at 6:04:18 am

[Brent Critchfield] "he was going to call the guys in Australia "

That's MxM. Same adaptor just to be very clear.

[Brent Critchfield] "they were able to sustain full 60fps overcranking for 2 mins.
At this point I'm probably looking at the Hoodman card and adapter. It's a little bit more than the ATP"


This is unclear. Do they claim the Hoodman RAW card can sustain 60fps? The issue has NOT been the adaptor but Sony's implementation of USB support for the adaptors, which Sony did for their hard drive which also can not sustain 60fps.

Of course if Hoodman RAW could support 60fps that would be excellent but they originally claimed 48fps on their site and that turned out not to be true. Their cards did not better than compatible Sandisk and Transcend cards for overcrank.

I do not believe in "claims," I believe in user test results.





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Marek Bilski
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 6, 2009 at 6:10:33 am

Hi, MxM here, I'd like to clarify Craig's comment about MxR being the same as MxM - just want to let you know that MxM is absolutely NOT the same as MxR... We use far superior technology and we only innitally were the same, but over the past several months we have developed new technology which permits a higher array of recognition of memory cards and also allows a faster SDHC memory card which potentially is capable of over cranking up to 60fps. I ran a test on SanDisk Extreme class 10 32GB memory card and was able to get 6 minutes of 54fps of overcranking. So the faster memory we can access the more overcranking we can achieve. There is also another company who is introducing SDHC memory cards at 300X speed which can translate to hopefully to about 25MB/s in writing so I'll be interested to see what overcranking is achievable with this.
I hope to be able to continue to contribute and be more than happy to clarify any issues users may be enquiring about on this forum.

MxM


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Craig Seeman
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 6, 2009 at 2:07:58 pm

[Marek Bilski] "We use far superior technology and we only innitally were the same, but over the past several months we have developed new technology which permits a higher array of recognition of memory cards and also allows a faster SDHC memory card which potentially is capable of over cranking up to 60fps."

A major thank you for that update!

[Marek Bilski] " I ran a test on SanDisk Extreme class 10 32GB memory card and was able to get 6 minutes of 54fps of overcranking."

Very impressive! You should state this on your page. I think many had assumed the adaptor was simply coming from the same manufacturer built to the same specs.

[Marek Bilski] "There is also another company who is introducing SDHC memory cards at 300X speed which can translate to hopefully to about 25MB/s in writing so I'll be interested to see what overcranking is achievable with this. "

Please keep us informed. Without marketing these points we simply don't know. What is delivery date of such card?

Maybe you should advertise on the COW and target market to this forum. You'd certainly have lots of eager customers.

I would certainly like to see user tests to verify performance on the Sandisk Extreme cards. I'd love to see results on ATP ProMax as well. The few who've mentioned they're using them have not had any of the reliability problems reported with Transcend and Sandisk Ultra these days.




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Marek Bilski
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 6, 2009 at 8:59:38 pm

Hi Craig, thanks for your kind words. As you know I have not been very active on forums. We at MxM put a lot of energy into the development of the MxM card. So the knowledge we have acquired over the past few months is staggering. Just to summarise, we've done 3,500 hours of recording on 16GB and 32GB memory cards. We tested and are still testing memory cards and it comes to the point that consumers have to settle for something that is reliable and reasonably priced rather than to go for cheap and uncertain. I will be slowly releasing information to the public through here if anyone is interested.
To start with, in regards to over cranking, the behaviour of Slot A to B on the camera is different to the point that the difference is roughly 4 to 5 fps. eg. If you use Slot B to over crank, you might get max 50 fps and if you use the same card with the same memory in Slot A you'll get 54 fps. Obviously not all cameras are made equal so in some batches it might be reversed.
We've done a lot of testing on Silicone Power 32GB and it appears to work very well, but even they keep changing their firmware, but it works and the sample card I have works very well, but I can't guarantee the stock in the shop will be the same unfortunately.
In regards to ATP ProMax, we first started testing on our older cards in April, and the 16GB works fantastically to the point that one of our customers took it to the Himalayans and filmed in minus zero temperatures and got great footage with no issues. That's the reason we then started to develop the MxM card with it so it could work with 32GB as the old chipset was not very stable back then but 32GB now with the new MxM card is equally reliable as I've never lost any footage on ATP ProMax, nor have my customers.
Finally not to forget or overlook the fact that we also test Hoodman's memory cards extensively with our adapters and they are manufactured to the highest standard.
We really took time and spent a lot of effort in working out the relationship between Sony's camera | our MxM adapter and memory cards and I must say we are almost 99% there...

MxM


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Craig Seeman
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Nov 6, 2009 at 10:34:56 pm

[Marek Bilski] "I will be slowly releasing information to the public through here if anyone is interested. "

I'm sure most here are interested.

[Marek Bilski] "We've done a lot of testing on Silicone Power 32GB and it appears to work very well, but even they keep changing their firmware, but it works and the sample card I have works very well, but I can't guarantee the stock in the shop will be the same unfortunately. "

This seems to be generally the case with some cards. Interesting that in some cases things move "backward." For example my Sandisk 32 GB Ultra II Class 2 (Yup, Class 2) are rock solid but others have reported the newer Class 4 are a no go.

[Marek Bilski] "In regards to ATP ProMax, we first started testing on our older cards in April, and the 16GB works fantastically to the point that one of our customers took it to the Himalayans and filmed in minus zero temperatures and got great footage with no issues. That's the reason we then started to develop the MxM card with it so it could work with 32GB as the old chipset was not very stable back then but 32GB now with the new MxM card is equally reliable as I've never lost any footage on ATP ProMax, nor have my customers."

Good to hear. ATP ProMax have ben hard to come buy and few of the well known stores sell them. I wish ATP ProMax cards were better distributed.

It's good to hear you're paying attention to detail and continue testing SDHC cards because as your own report verifies, they do change over time.

Please do keep us informed. SDHC (and MxM) is a fairly hot topic around these parts. Thanks for dropping in and do "chat up" findings and developments as they happen.




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Joe Bell
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Feb 15, 2010 at 9:21:43 pm

Waiting with bated breath to hear more. SxS is so expensive... I guess you get what you pay for.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Feb 15, 2010 at 10:33:54 pm

Waiting for what? SDHC works fine. Sony has already announced their own SDHC adaptor and are recommending Class 10 cards. I believe the people at both MxR and MxM have tested class 10 cards with EX1r and have said they can even overcrank at 2x (or more).



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Joe Bell
Re: Do SDHC cards really work?
on Feb 16, 2010 at 12:01:13 am

Good gracious, fabulous news. I had seen claims of perfect performance on the mxmexpress website, but hadn't realised Sony were stepping up to it too.

This definitely represents a much suitable solution for my budget - thanks for the update!


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