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EX1 for Broadcast

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Greg Ball
EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 13, 2009 at 7:00:24 pm

Can someone tell me if the EX1 can be used for Broadcast and is considered "Broadcast Quality".

Can you point me to any listing or link that shows what broadcast shows have been shot with an EX!? I have a client questioning if it is indeed broadcast quality.

Thanks very much


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 13, 2009 at 7:09:35 pm

At the bottom of the post look at the Related Threads. OVERWHELMING YES!

BTW the term "Broadcast Quality" is near MEANINGLESS. Major networks are using cell phone video.

As to whether networks accept it for broadcast, OVERWHELMING YES to that more meaningful question. There's almost no point in listing but Discovery Channel and BBC come to mind. It's also been used as a "B" camera in many feature films. Recently "District 9" comes to mind. I've used it for local cable spots myself.

Is your client doing broadcast work?
If they're not trying to meet someone's broadcast spec, looking at your demo reel (or someone's demo reel) should be enough.



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Daniel Startek
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 13, 2009 at 7:30:00 pm

Also 'B' camera in Public Enemies.



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Rafael Amador
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 14, 2009 at 9:59:50 am

[Craig Seeman] "BTW the term "Broadcast Quality" is near MEANINGLE"
"Broadcast Quality" is an analog term. Refers to the Signal to Noise ratio and Bandwidth of an analog system.
Started to make little sense with the arrival of the Betacam.
Been the Broadcast format for ages, Betacam never was "Broadcast Quality" up to these specs.
rafael




http://www.nagavideo.com


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Greg Ondera
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 13, 2009 at 7:33:09 pm

Yes, and my understanding is that the Discovery channel has given it a silver status for broadcast, which isn't the best, but it works well.

Greg Ondera
http://www.Plexus.tv
http://www.SurgeonToday.org


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Jordan Dwyer
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 17, 2009 at 1:57:33 pm

Hi Greg
What is silver status with discovery. Does that mean i can shoot an entire 54 minute with the ex1 or only a certain amount, in terms of being able to be shown on Discovery channel?

My Website: http://www.newagetv.co.za
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrNewAgeTv

3D Animation: Light Wave 3D
My Camera: Sony EX1
Web Design: Flash CS4
Editing: Liquid Edition


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Ed Kukla
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 18, 2009 at 10:48:09 pm

This is my understanding of Discovery HD:

Discovery HD has 3 levels; gold, silver & bronze. 35mm and some of the 1" imager cameras are gold, the bulk of production HD cameras such as the Sony F900, Varicam, HDX900 are all silver. HDV, HVX200 and all SD material are bronze.
Bronze has severe restrictions on length of time within a show and the use has to be justified with no alternative available.
Silver is fully accepted for the entire length of programming on Discovery HD.

The EX cameras are silver level so Discovery is putting them on the same acceptance level with F900, Varicam & HDX900. Note the HVX200 did not make it nor did any HDV.


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Jordan Dwyer
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 19, 2009 at 5:11:12 am

Thanks Greg, that is good news. I knew there was a reason why i chose the ex1 over the z7, but somewhere between dshc card failure and huge storage requirements the reason got lost. Now i just need to find a discovery channel rep and pitch some ideas for here in Africa

My Website: http://www.newagetv.co.za
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrNewAgeTv

3D Animation: Light Wave 3D
My Camera: Sony EX1
Web Design: Flash CS4
Editing: Liquid Edition


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Ed Kukla
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 19, 2009 at 11:23:23 am

Now for the rest of the story...

Discovery may very well approve of the EX cameras for gathering images. What that does not tell you is that they will probably not accept the cards or a hard drive for submission of materials. They usually want ALL original materials handed over to them for archival. And they will only accept tape. So you will need to transfer ALL your footage over to HDCAM tape for delivery as part of any typical contract with Discovery. Same for History except it will be DVCPro HD tape.

As I have posted elsewhere; I have offered my EX camera at significant savings over F900 for Discovery and HDX900 for History and been turned down EVERY time because of the requirement to turn in all materials on tape. The producers don't want the extra work involved in transferring 30 hours of material to tape.


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Jordan Dwyer
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 19, 2009 at 3:01:37 pm

Hi Ed, Do you mean that the producers will not accept your proposal if you are using a ex1? Due to the fact that the source footage will not be on a HDTAPE. What if i were to offer them the hd tape conversion as part of the proposal. It shouldnt be too hard to transfer to a HD tape?

My Website: http://www.newagetv.co.za
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrNewAgeTv

3D Animation: Light Wave 3D
My Camera: Sony EX1
Web Design: Flash CS4
Editing: Liquid Edition


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Ed Kukla
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 19, 2009 at 10:53:19 pm

There is usually not the time to do a transfer to tape. Shoot 3 to 4 hours of material in the field, hand over tapes to the producer and bye bye.
If you are a closed loop, you can probably do what you propose on your time. HDcam decks are not cheap, nor are hdcam tapes.

If you have something they REALLY want, anything goes. That is EXTREMELY rare.



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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 19, 2009 at 10:58:38 pm

But someone else on this forum said XDCAM disc is the next Beta. Surely they can accept that, no?

Certainly XDCAM EX as data file on XDCAM disc would be an archival comparable to tape or better.

Are they looking for master on HDCAM or all shoot material> I can't imagine the latter unless they were doing the post.



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Greg Ondera
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 20, 2009 at 1:44:56 am

Thanks, Ed for your ample response. I was away in the mountains this weekend.

Greg Ondera
http://www.Plexus.tv
http://www.SurgeonToday.org


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Greg Ondera
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 20, 2009 at 1:56:32 am

I want to add some more to this: First of all the best means for archiving XDCam footage is still not so easily set, in my opinion. DLT tape which is an old means of backing up MFX footage is looking pretty good. The XDCam discs seem very expensive to me, and they have the same life cycle as DLT according to the pundits. However, you need the DLT recorder that will handle XDCAM.

Also Discovery Channel is no easy nut to crack for a cameraman alone, even though they may be the only cameraman for miles in a simply fabulous location. Discovery and Nat Geo only want to deal with incorporated producers for multiple reasons other than liability, so that they are assured of getting a program in the event of that cameraman passing away or getting hurt on the job. Therefore they will likely listen to your ideas and go ask a producer that they have worked with before about doing your idea. So watch out.

And yes, they own every bit of your footage once you start work on the project. But above all, they look for a track record over ideas. And if you have something interesting in your area to shoot, they would rather send someone than you, unless possibly, you already have the footage.

Greg Ondera
http://www.Plexus.tv
http://www.SurgeonToday.org


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Jordan Dwyer
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 20, 2009 at 5:29:26 am

That is so true. I attended a wildlife film festival here in Durban a few years back and everybody was scared to speak to the reps from discovery for fear of them taking the ideas and using it themselves.Surley discovery channell is aware of this bad PR. THey should embrace ideas and proposals and put in place a proper system of onwership of these proposals, so the originator of the idea will atleist be involved with the production. I think your right greg in saying that you need to already have the critical footage in the bag when you approach them.

My Website: http://www.newagetv.co.za
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrNewAgeTv

3D Animation: Light Wave 3D
My Camera: Sony EX1
Web Design: Flash CS4
Editing: Liquid Edition


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Jordan Dwyer
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 20, 2009 at 5:34:51 am

Here's an idea Greg maybe you can advice me on this. If i were to go out with my EX1 and film some HIgh Definition wildlife footage of say the big 5 (or 7 as it is known now) would i be able to load that up onto a website and sell it off as source footage?

My Website: http://www.newagetv.co.za
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrNewAgeTv

3D Animation: Light Wave 3D
My Camera: Sony EX1
Web Design: Flash CS4
Editing: Liquid Edition


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Greg Ondera
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 20, 2009 at 3:21:43 pm

I had a friend who was a pro-diver as well as an outstanding cameraman and he got some fantastic footage of an area of the ocean that no one visited before and it was truly unique and he took it to Discovery and they would not let him in. He caused some kind of small ruckus in the lobby and just sat there and said he would wait for the appropriate guy to talk to. The Discovery guy caved in, looked at his footage and basically told him that they always use so-n-so to do the programs for them, which was a team of 5 different producers. Although the footage was good, they had no place for him.

I knew another guy that was a fantastic cameraman who worked on programs for many Discovery channels, and the only way he could get it on with them was to attach himself to an approved producer with Discovery--letting the Producer produce, and he was essentially the cameraman. This is really the only way to do this. Don't go to Discovery, but go to the Producers that work for Discovery. You might get the list of attendees that go to the RealScreen Summit in Winter in Wash DC. Don't waist your time with Discovery. They are not really the people you want to go to first.

Also, the first guy I mentioned created his own DVD. Not that this helped any, but you might also try creating your own program. If you load it up on your own website, then Discovery will still want to come out and shoot their own stuff. That footage will be considered "tainted" like the publishers don't want you to show your work online, where there are rights issues. Notice that Discovery does not do this. So assume they have reasons.

You might think about attending RealScreen Summit if you are really ambitious about this, but I would try to contact various producers first. And I am no expert. I tried something similar to no avail several years ago.



Greg Ondera
http://www.Plexus.tv
http://www.SurgeonToday.org


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Greg Ondera
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 20, 2009 at 3:30:22 pm

That being said, there was a viral video going out on YouTube several years ago, the "Battle at Kruger" <



> which is still up. Its camcorder footage capturing an unbelievable event. Nonetheless, because of the narrative unfolding and the continuous tension built into the story, Discovery assigned one of their producers to complete a whole story around it and they made a full hour long one-up about this footage. So they milked it for an hour with all this other additional footage and reiteration of the youTube footage. Essentially they broke their own broadcast standard principles for this one because it was that valuable.

Greg Ondera
http://www.Plexus.tv
http://www.SurgeonToday.org


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Michael Palmer
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 20, 2009 at 3:33:49 pm

There is only ONE Rule,
Content is King.

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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Jordan Dwyer
Re: EX1 for Broadcast
on Oct 20, 2009 at 5:59:00 pm

Yes i remember that youtube video. I remember watching it on Discovery and i think the narration mentioned it was a 8 minute video, then i remember wondering how they were going to make a whole hours program out of it.

Discovery operates in a funny way, only using their own producers all the time. I wonder what must of happened to them in the past that led to them being so overprotective now. thanks for the advice on finding a producer. I think i will give that some consideration.

My Website: http://www.newagetv.co.za
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrNewAgeTv

3D Animation: Light Wave 3D
My Camera: Sony EX1
Web Design: Flash CS4
Editing: Liquid Edition


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