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Organization Advice Importing BPAV to FCP

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Jim Bruce
Organization Advice Importing BPAV to FCP
on Oct 6, 2009 at 6:25:35 pm

Hi All,

I just finished 6 weeks of shooting Round 1 of a documentary film on a Sony EX-1.

Thanks to help from the board the data workflow went smoothly, backing the BPAV up to multiple FW drives using Clip Browser. (the only scary thing was my camera started recording intermittent red glitches of varying size during week 2 - most likely a bad sensor - with a little strong arming b and h took it back).

Now I have many Gb of footage spread across about 30 BPAV folders and I'm looking for advice on how best to import and organize in FCP.

Wrapping the files to .mov with XDCam Transfer/ FCP is the route I assume is best, but what I can't tell is whether there is any particular approach that allows more data to travel with the file.

Also I assume there is no plan for Apple to offer native XDCam editing anytime soon (since they didn't include in FCP 7), so is there any reason to try to organize these clips in a way that mimics the BPAV Folders ?

I suppose that would help if I ever lost the .mov's and had to go back to the original BPAV's (which I will continue to keep indefinitely), but then I have these ridiculous names for the folders (time stamp) and the file names vs. useful things like the name of the interview subject and so forth.

If any of you have tips on preferred ways to add new names but keep references to camera originals (copy old names into a comment column or something?) and organize files in FCP I am all ears.

Thanks for any advice you might give.

Regards,

Jim


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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: Organization Advice Importing BPAV to FCP
on Oct 6, 2009 at 6:57:44 pm

You can use the Clip Browser to create new BPAV folders and copy/move the raw clips in between them, keeping metadata intact. Everybody's workflow is different, but maybe this might be handy for you on some level. I've done this to combine BPAV folders for organizational purposes, and I've also used its built-in folder split function to make several DVD-sized BPAV folders from one gigantic one. Maybe you've already done this.

I messed around with the whole idea of renaming clips and/or trying to get comments or notes to stay with the file en route to Final Cut Pro. In some cases it worked; however, as soon as I removed that BPAV folder as an available source from XDCAM Transfer, all the data I put into those clips disappeared. It turns out it was only stored as cached information for the XDCAM Transfer application, and not added to the metadata in the BPAV folder. Boy, was I ever disappointed. If there's one remaining feature I wish Sony would add, that's got to be it right there.

Cf



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Ron Pestes
Re: Organization Advice Importing BPAV to FCP
on Oct 6, 2009 at 9:11:33 pm

I never even use Clip Browser. I just transfer staight from the cards to my hard drives using XD CAM Transfer. Then it is ready to use immediately without having to go look for it in the BPAV folders. This may not work for everyone but it works great for me. At least consider it. Good luck.


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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: Organization Advice Importing BPAV to FCP
on Oct 7, 2009 at 1:35:08 pm

Hi, Ron. If you just transfer straight from the cards, are you not archiving your footage? If you are doing so in a separate step, you would benefit from using the Clip Browser. It does CRC error correction as it copies the clips, for one. It allows you to easily create and manipulate new BPAV folders, too. I'm a backup neurotic, so the idea of not archiving anything makes my eyelid twitch.

By the way, archiving the files you convert from the raw BPAV folders is NOT the correct approach. There have been discussion threads ad nauseam on this forum, outlining why that's exactly the wrong thing to do. If you backup only the converted Quicktimes and later on have to make MXF for Avid or something, you're in for a more painful conversion process.

Cf


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Craig Seeman
Re: Organization Advice Importing BPAV to FCP
on Oct 7, 2009 at 1:57:57 pm

Clint is correct on this.

Without CRC you risk making a bad copy and not knowing it until your cards are erased.
The BPAV is your master. The BPAV can be wrapped to MXF, MOV, used as MP4 depending on NLE and other workflow utilities. If all you have is the MOV you've made it very difficult to move the project to any other platform.

You can drive for years without using a seatbelt and never have an accident but it takes only a single accident to be fatal. Ron, your workflow is a accident waiting to happen. The result may be thousands of dollars on a reshoot, a lost job, a lost client, a bad reputation which can damage your business future as a result of that accident.



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Jim Bruce
Re: Organization Advice Importing BPAV to FCP
on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:29:49 pm

Hi Clint,

Thanks for your response. Didn't know about the option of combining or splitting BPAV folders in Clip Browser. Sounds interesting.

I have discovered upon a closer look that I have tons of duplicate names because I didn't realize the camera would use repeat clip names (or maybe it was my replacement camera that caused this).

So I have started a new thread....

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/142/867336

Any advice you'd be willing to add would be great.

Thanks,

Jim



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Ron Pestes
Re: Organization Advice Importing BPAV to FCP
on Oct 7, 2009 at 5:00:02 pm

The camera should never repeat clip names. It automaticly advances one number with each shot. As to the comments about the BPAV folder for archiving I had never heard about what has been said here so I will take it under advisment. I never have worked with someone else on an editing project. So my workflow was to copy to two drives so I had a backup. Having the option to take my clips to another system has never crossed my mind as I do all my own editing. Maybe that will change over time though. Thanks for the heads up.


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Marvin Holdman
Re: Organization Advice Importing BPAV to FCP
on Oct 7, 2009 at 9:45:00 pm

I would have to suggest CatDV and Calibrated Software. You can archive the BPAV files directly and generate an XML list from your catalog which can then be connected to your MOV files once they have transferred to FCP.

We retain all of our BPAV folders in a individual root folders with the CatDV catalog inside.

For a single film maker this is a pretty economical approach. Should you migrate on to a work group, there is a server option available with this package.

BTW, I don't sell either of these packages. Just a long time user who is surprised more people aren't aware of this product.



Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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Clint Fleckenstein
CatDV (Re: Organization Advice Importing BPAV to FCP)
on Oct 8, 2009 at 1:14:47 pm

I've been playing with the 30 day demo for a while and it doesn't like the raw clips (it sees the Quicktimes okay though). Am I missing something, or is this yet another feature of the application that I can't test with the demo version?

Cf


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Marvin Holdman
Re: CatDV (Organization Advice Importing BPAV to FCP)
on Oct 8, 2009 at 6:03:44 pm

You will need Calibrated Software's codec to see those raw files. They have a demo as well. You will find it at their website.

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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Daniel Wright
Re: CatDV (Organization Advice Importing BPAV to FCP)
on Oct 8, 2009 at 8:59:54 pm

Hi Jim,

Sounds as if CatDV might be worth checking out.

FWIW, I labouriously copy and paste the UMID in XDCAM Transfer into the comment field as this appears as the Log Note in FCP. I then save Transfer's database with the project. That way, all the logging is preserved and if I need to return to the original clip, I can just point XDCAM Transfer at the database and the search for the UMID.

It's not part of my workflow but you can change the datestamps Clip Browser uses for the folders to whatever you like. The folder name will appear in the Reel column in FCP. I wouldn't change anything inside the BPAV folder for fear of breaking it.

XDCAM Transfer's Preferences gives you some flexibility over the name given to the imported mov files, so you could enter something useful in the Clip Title field and include that in the filename.

BTW, Clint,

I think SONY might have been busy on saving metadata back to the BPAV folder since you last tested. Works for me in Version 2.10. At least, the metadata for the clip itself gets saved. The thing you do lose (one of the reasons why I keep the database) is all the markup for the subclips and any names you have given them.


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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: CatDV (Organization Advice Importing BPAV to FCP)
on Oct 9, 2009 at 2:00:09 pm

Thanks a bunch, Daniel. I'll have to look at that again. My big concern is that if I export a Quicktime movie title "Screaming Cheetah Wheelies" that I have a way to connect it to a raw XDCAM file back down the road. I'll take some time to play around with it.

In regards to the Calibrated Software codec...I can't install that on a Final Cut Studio system, can I? That's why I figured I would export Quicktimes to the RAID that we keep online using this workstation, and archive the BPAV folders to XDCAM disc for the fire safe. Then I could use CatDV to catalog the Quicktime movies.

Cf


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Marvin Holdman
Re: CatDV (Organization Advice Importing BPAV to FCP)
on Oct 9, 2009 at 3:38:07 pm

You can install Calibrated Codec on a FCP system. Just make sure you get the right one at the web site. This allows you to use quicktime OUTSIDE of the FCP for the MP4 files. If you use this in conjunction with CatDV, you can export an XML list from CatDV and associate your notes from the raw BAPV folder with the MOV's that you have transferred into FCP. Pretty slick for projects with a lot of footage.

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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