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EX1 footage transfer problem HELP!!!

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christopher reed
EX1 footage transfer problem HELP!!!
on Aug 27, 2009 at 5:59:16 pm

unfortunately it was the first time i've used an EX1 and when transferring the data from card to hard drive i went into a folder called 'BPAV' and transferred only the folder titled 'CLIPR'and didn't transfer the other files titled: CUEUP.XML, MEDIAPRO.XML and a folder called TAKR.
I can view the files in VLC but cant transfer them into Final Cut Pro even though i have the XDCam transfer software (i transferred the whoe BPAV for the other folder and it works fine).

Is there any way i can use these files or transfer them into Final cut without the other folders.
Or can i convert the files into a useable format?

HELP!!! its for an important project for work and i'm really scared!!


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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: EX1 footage transfer problem HELP!!!
on Aug 27, 2009 at 6:46:12 pm

From your post I get the impression that you've done some panic reading and realized the following: that the BPAV folder must be intact. Always and forever.

I've never had to do this, but it's been said on here that the latest version of Sony's "Clip Browser" software can take orphaned video clips and rebuild a new BPAV for you. Hopefully somebody will chime in and help you with that, or you can experiment and figure it out.

Hopefully this works for you. We get a lot of this kind of thing around here, so it's hard not to give a smackdown :) I emphatically recommend the Sony tools for moving and transferring your footage. For instance, Clip Browser will copy your files from your card/camera with error correction, something a drag/drop won't do. It will also let you split and combine BPAV folders, things like that. Not only is it indispensible as a workflow item, it's also quite handy.

Cf


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1 footage transfer problem HELP!!!
on Aug 27, 2009 at 6:59:04 pm

[Clint Fleckenstein] "it's hard not to give a smackdown"

Your post preceded mine since I was busy doing the smackdown :>

[Clint Fleckenstein] "We get a lot of this kind of thing around here,"

Everywhere. It seems there's a masochistic tendency in today's youth me thinks.

[Clint Fleckenstein] "something a drag/drop won't do"

from page 112 from the EX1 PDF Manual (and I'm sure it's in printed EX1 and EX3 as well).

To copy clips to the local disk of a computer, the XDCAM EX Clip Browsing Software must be
used.


I know Sony's manuals aren't the greatest but "must" doesn't seem to have an optional intent.
nor does

If you operate, e.g. copy the clips on the SxS memory card by using the Explorer (Windows) or Finder (Macintosh), the subsidiary data contained by the clips may not be maintained. To avoid such a problem, use the XDCAM EX Clip Browsing Software.

Well they don't actually use the words "drag and drop" but that's a pretty strong warning against use Explorer or Finder as the means to copy.



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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1 footage transfer problem HELP!!!
on Aug 27, 2009 at 6:48:51 pm

Short answer, File/Import the MP4 into ClipBrowser 2.5 and create new BPAV although it won't have the original metadata.

As a "fireman" I don't want to keep putting out fires. I want people to stop playing with matches (I guess I want to be Smokey The Bear)

I don't meant to sound like a smart**s but why did you do this in the first place? Honestly even inexperience doesn't explain all and I HONESTLY want to understand why people do this?

I'm an old geezer in video years. I started editing with 1" tape and was even doing dubs with 2" before that. Never would I thought of unscrewing the hub to take the reel off. When I started using 3/4", Beta, VHS, I never would have thought of unscrewing the cassette, removing all those little parts that hold and guide the tape through, to remove the tape. I was inexperienced with all these formats too (along with everyone else) when they came into existence. In Dec 2007 I got the EX1 and despite having no prior experience I never thought to pull apart the BPAV. A hub, a cassette, a folder with metadata and media . . . never did it enter my mind that dismembering it was something to do. I didn't even have to read a manual to think that way.

In every case I simply assumed that if a manufacturer (and really their engineers) built a container, it was meant to be used that way. If Sony's (or Panasonic or Canon) engineers designed a camera to record a folder with a bunch 'o junk in it, my very first guess would be they had some technical reason for doing that.

I'm probably sounding like Bob Z. here and I don't mean to be harsh but I'm seeing posts like this on forums several times a week and maybe it's a generational thing but i HONESTLY want to understand WHY because somewhere we need a STICKY that says DO NOT OPEN THE FOLDER or whatever needs be done to get this across BEFORE you shoot anything important.

Even if technical instinct doesn't lead you to leave the BPAV . . .
Page 112 in Sony EX1 User's Manual PDF

To copy clips to the local disk of a computer, the XDCAM EX Clip Browsing Software must be used.

followed by

Although the data regarding recorded materials are stored over multiple files and folders, you can
easily handle the clips without considering such data and directory structure by using the XDCAM EX Clip Browsing Software.


and followed with

If you operate, e.g. copy the clips on the SxS memory card by using the Explorer (Windows) or Finder (Macintosh), the subsidiary data contained by the clips may not be maintained. To avoid such a problem, use the XDCAM EX Clip Browsing Software.




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Daniel Wright
Re: EX1 footage transfer problem HELP!!!
on Aug 27, 2009 at 9:43:31 pm

I recently found that if you put all the MP4 files into a folder you can then drag that folder onto the XDCAM Transfer tool's Source area.

This is definitely NOT recommended practice, but it will get you going if you are in a hurry.


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Marvin Holdman
Re: EX1 footage transfer problem HELP!!!
on Aug 29, 2009 at 11:45:55 am

Craig,

Why would someone screw with a BPAV folder???

I certainly understand why this happens. As someone who manages 20 year olds, the thing that I notice over and over is the assumption that "because it was that way last time, it will be the same now".

What I mean by this is that if you are a kid who grew up playing with computers, swapping MP3's, DIVX, JPEGs ect. Then looking at the Sony system the first time might lead one to think, "Oh, it's video, I only need the goodies and will trash the rest of this Sony crap".

I am by no means saying this is good or right (obviously creates angst), but I am saying we all think we know more than we really do. If you don't believe me, I would have to ask.... do you read the manual for EVERYTHING you purchase? You might be one of the few people that do that, but most, will just start using whatever the device, assuming they "know how it works".

Oh yeah, Calibrated Software's MXF plug-in lets you work with orphaned MP4 files. Works great.


Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1 footage transfer problem HELP!!!
on Aug 29, 2009 at 11:02:13 pm

[Marvin Holdman] "What I mean by this is that if you are a kid who grew up playing with computers, swapping MP3's, DIVX, JPEGs ect. Then looking at the Sony system the first time might lead one to think, "Oh, it's video, I only need the goodies and will trash the rest of this Sony crap". "

Those other files tend not to go in folders with metadata.

In fact kids who really played with their computers have poked inside of program packages, looked at file metadata. There's a difference between the kid who's computer experience consists of playing MP3s and the one who looks at the SWF, graphic components, things that describe the location and file and player parameters, the javascript needed to embed an FLV in a Flash Player and then embed that in a web page.

People at a level of inexperience should not be doing data wrangling with camera masters with important shoots. They work as interns and learn from experienced people . . . and/or practice on not so important things.

Certainly people can mess up while their learning but anybody at that level shouldn't go nearly anything important. Anybody making the aforementioned mistakes probably has not yet done a single project with the camera and work flow.





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Marvin Holdman
Re: EX1 footage transfer problem HELP!!!
on Sep 1, 2009 at 6:18:52 pm

Heh, I agree. But face it, MANY editors have marginal computer skills, EXCEPT for the few applications that they rely on. Unfortunately, some become such experts at using these applications that they believe their knowledge transcends to the entire machine. If effect, their reach exceeds their grasp.

I agree, anyone that takes even a moment and THINKS about what they are doing will not get rid of things they do not completely understand, but I was only replying to your initial "why, oh why" statement. Just giving you my 2 cents as to "why" these things happen. These are unique times we live in. The more time you spend on computers only brings the realization of just how ignorant to the big picture that any of us individuals really are. Collectively, we have a small chance of divining knowledge and the deeper we go into it, the more we'll have to find ways (like this) to reach out. Philosophically, it's quite a conundrum. The more empowered we are as individuals, the more we are going to need to rely on each other. At least, that's the way I see it. But... I could be wrong :-0

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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Matthew Rowley
Re: EX1 footage transfer problem
on Dec 5, 2010 at 12:49:30 am

My question is a bit of a rabbit trail, but still pertains to the same topic. For all of my shoots, I copy the entire BPAV folder, store it, and create a backup. And I do the same for the .mxf files I export out of clip browser.

My question is, am I losing a generation in my media files if I export them from clip browser, as opposed to using the files directly from the BPAV folder?

Matt

Sony EX1R
Adobe CS3

abdielpictures@gmail.com


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Don Greening
Re: EX1 footage transfer problem
on Dec 5, 2010 at 2:31:17 am

[Matthew Rowley] "am I losing a generation in my media files if I export them from clip browser, as opposed to using the files directly from the BPAV folder?"

No, because Clip Browser is not re-writing the actual video but is instead only changing the wrapper the video comes in so that different programs can edit.

- Don

Don Greening
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Matthew Rowley
Re: EX1 footage transfer problem
on Dec 5, 2010 at 3:52:15 pm

Don,

Thank you for the answer. I appreciate the insight. I've tried to run my own tests, but at the moment I only own a copy of CS3. Premiere won't recognize the .mpeg4 files out of the BPAV file, and After Effects won't recognize the .mxf files. So I felt my own tests couldn't be completely objective. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't the separate programs causing a different export result each time.

Matt

Sony EX1R
Adobe CS3

abdielpictures@gmail.com


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Don Greening
Re: EX1 footage transfer problem
on Dec 5, 2010 at 8:08:12 pm

If memory serves the last version of Premiere in CS4 was the first time native mp4 files could be ingested and editied without some sort of transcode first.

- Don

Don Greening
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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Matthew Rowley
Re: EX1 footage transfer problem
on Dec 6, 2010 at 7:05:23 am

Great, thanks Don. I appreciate it.

Sony EX1R
Adobe CS3

abdielpictures@gmail.com


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