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raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC

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Nick Pel
raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Jul 30, 2009 at 7:33:05 am

Hello!
I've been reading the threads of this forum for a while and found a bunch of interesting stuff and hopefully we'll be able to solve my problem too!

I recently filmed a short using a Sony XDCAM EX1 for a school project. The raw footage has been handed me on a several dvds as .mov files imported using Final Cut Pro.
Unfortunately I have a PC and intend to edit the footage using Sony Vegas, not a Mac with Final Cut Pro.
Reading/playing these .mov (xdcam ex 1080p30) on my PC and Mac (I have a basic one without FCP) has been unsuccessfull, as I can just hear the audio, no video.

My guess is that if I want to play/edit those files I'll need to convert them back to the original .mxf correct? What's the easiest way to do that without having a FCP?


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Craig Seeman
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Jul 30, 2009 at 1:36:13 pm

First what have as mov I wouldn't call the "raw" footage. The Camera masters are BPAV with MP4 (and other metadata inside. They rewrapped the footage to MOV for FCP as you note. Those should NOT be distributed as raw footage as they are NOT camera masters. Doing that digs people like you into a hole.

There is a solution but it will cost $80. This will play EX MOV files on non FCP systems (both Mac and Windows)
http://www.calibratedsoftware.com/QXD.asp




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Nick Pel
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Jul 30, 2009 at 2:25:55 pm

Yes I'm aware of this CalibratedSoftware codec (the only one around!) but just playing the clips wouldn't do much good either.
I need to re-wrap them into a format that I can edit easly using a PC.
Do you know of any "converter" that works in vista?

Thanks anyway for your suggestion =)


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David Bispham
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Jul 30, 2009 at 4:12:46 pm

Can you get a hold of the Camera original BPAV folders?
I believe that Sony Vegas should handle the files natively,
or use clip browser to transfer to mxf for Vegas.



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Craig Seeman
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Jul 30, 2009 at 4:54:03 pm

As does Premiere Pro CS4 and Edius. Avid needs MXF (it might work with MOV with CalibratedSoftware).
The ONLY time one should ever deliver EX MOV is when one knows for sure you're handing it to someone with FCP6 or higher and I still think the BPAV is better for maximum flexibility.



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Craig Seeman
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Jul 30, 2009 at 4:51:16 pm

If the Windows edit system supports MOV (and many professional systems do), you can use the files in such NLE.

I know of no way to rewrap EX MOV on Windows although you can re-encode them and that will result in some resolution loss.

Somebody really dumped a load on you. If they were a professional I'd dump it back to them and ask for the BPAV. If they were students I'd fail them. If it was a teacher I'd reprimand them for teaching something and misinforming students without doing some basic research of even asking the question on the COW before digging this hole.

You also NEED to know what format you want to go to. Some Windows NLEs use MXF others can handle the MP4 directly and some systems (generally not professional) need to have the files re-encoded to another format.

Having the camera masters, the source BPAV with MP4 gives you the flexibility to do re-wrap or use as is.

You really MUST use the CalibratedSoftware (AFAIK) to do anything with the EX MOV on Windows whether play, edit, re-encode.

Again I know of no way to re-wrap EX MOV on Windows.
On Mac in FCP you can re-wrap and send back out as MP4 and then create a new BPAV for it.



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Ishu Krishna
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Oct 22, 2009 at 3:21:41 pm

I have a similar problem. I use FCP, so I used XDCamTransfer on my mac and usually edit in FCP. I teach a class in basic video production and just found out that the school only has Premiere. I was misinformed earlier. How do I covert the .mov files to a format usable through Premiere? I don't have the BPAV folders. I am fine with resolution loss, it's shot in HD and its for a web delivery. I have compressor, since I am unfamiliar with Premiere I just need to know what format to convert them to.

Ishu


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Craig Seeman
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Oct 22, 2009 at 7:57:39 pm

I believe a more recent thread went through all this.

First of all REGARDLESS OF NLE you should be archiving the BPAV. They are your camera masters.
It is unfortunate that as a teacher you didn't research this FIRST. This is BASIC knowledge that an Assistant Editor and Digital Camera Assistant should know. Not teaching that results in sending out people improperly trained in the basics if Digital Video Asset Management. This can include XDCAM, P2, RED and many other digital formats. The source file is your master. Treat it as such.

Premiere Pro CS4 can handle the source MP4 files (which you don't have). Premiere Pro CS3 may need an update. So before embarking on another wrong turn you should establish what version your NLE is.

Final Cut Pro can export the MOV back to MP4 but you don't have that. Convergent Design has a utility for Mac than can rewrap MOV to MXF but that may not help you.

Calibrated Software has a plugin that will allow non Final Cut Pro systems (Mac and Windows) to handle the XDCAM EX files. You will need to buy that for each Premiere Pro NLE system though.

You can recompress the files to something Premiere can handle but you'll still need to be able to handle the MOV in order for them to be encoded to something else. How you do this really depends on what your version of Premiere can handle. BTW Loss is Loss so taking HD through a lossy compression only to be edited and then compressed again for the web is not a good thing.



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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Jul 30, 2009 at 5:06:17 pm

You need to get the original BPAV folders. Using Clip Browser, they can easily collect your footage (assuming they archived what you shot) and combine/split into DVD sized chunks for burning. Simply getting around the issue by purchasing the codec may or may not solve all your issues, and it's best to do things "by the book" in my opinion.

Earlier this year, despite how often this comes up, I still tried to take a "shortcut" for a friend and export MXF files for his PC-based Avid. He had issues with the footage, never having worked with XDCAM EX footage before, and I ended up doing just what we advise everyone else to do: give the editor the raw BPAV folders and let them sort it out. I knew better, figured I could deliver what he needed, and should have taken my own advice.

This brings up a common line of discussion, as it is associated with "school." (thus I'm assuming you're a student.) I've read plenty of accounts online of people complaining that graduates coming out of "school" have all kinds of grand Spielberg-ian ideas...but ZERO workflow skills. There's only one way for that to happen to students who are still being allowed to graduate: instructors are not doing an adequate job of addressing, teaching, and enforcing good workflow habits. You got bit by it on a school project...imagine if there were thousands of dollars and an angry client in the mix! It's a good lesson.

Hopefully you can get the original footage and work with it as you see fit. There's always the aforementioned Calibrated Software codec as well. Hopefully you also got a good lesson. If you can graduate school with good workflow skills and the patience to work through the boring technical part of working with specific equipment and formats, you're going to be ahead of 90% of the other graduates.

(PS: by putting "school" in quotes, I'm not mocking...I just want to point out that it's a pretty broad term these days. Some are good, some are not so good. Neither can replace valuable real-world experience.)


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Michael Palmer
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Jul 30, 2009 at 5:13:34 pm

He could dump all the clips to a final cut timeline and export back the SxS


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Nick Pel
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Jul 31, 2009 at 8:35:01 am

I'm trying to deal with this unprofessional teacher which so far has refused to burn me a new set of dvds with the RAW footage (.BPAV files etc). He complains about not being paid for the time spent burning me the raw files although I operated the camera, produced and directed the short.
It might end up with me being stuck with these EX .mov files, we'll see where it will go. If I'm unsuccessfull in obtaining the raw footage I will be forced to get a hold of somebody that has a Mac with FCP, unwrap and re-wrap the files, if it's even possible to do so.

Thank you very much to be supportive and helpful =)


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David Bispham
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Jul 31, 2009 at 1:50:28 pm

Nick, get a mobile hard drive and copy the files yourself and then you will have them.
Keep one copy on the mobile drive and one copy on your system, then you'll have two copies for yourself. Who knows what your professor might do with the original BPAV folders in the future.
And if the professor is compelled to delete the originals because you have made copies I would at least want to make sure the footage plays in your system before he does so, and better yet it might be best to keep them on that drive as well.
With clip browser you can have CRC enabled (in the preferences) to make sure the copies are verified
Also BPAV is a folder not a file extension as you wrote (.BPAV)
And it is a God almighty folder that should stay intact.





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Nick Pel
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Aug 1, 2009 at 2:02:44 pm

I just came back from a friend of mine's. He has Final Cut Pro 6, we tried to convert the XDCAM EX 1080p30 .mov files into something Sony Vegas can handle but we had no luck. We even downloaded the Sony Clip Browser on his Mac but it didn't recognize those .mov files.

Is there a specific way to convert those .mov files through FCP? If so, what are the steps to take (besides using the Calibrated{Q} codec)? I'm resisting to buy the Calibrated{Q} codec because this is a one time only thing, since next time I'll make sure to always get the RAW .BPAV files.


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Craig Seeman
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Aug 1, 2009 at 3:15:40 pm

[Nick Pel] "We even downloaded the Sony Clip Browser on his Mac but it didn't recognize those .mov files.
"

Sony ClipBrowser does NOT recognize mov files. You can put the MOV files in FCP timeline and export them BACK to MP4. ClipBrowser can then take those a wrap a new BPAV around that.





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Michael Palmer
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Aug 1, 2009 at 4:52:16 pm

Great post Craig


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Ken Libby
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Aug 2, 2009 at 12:05:03 am

I am trying to wrap my co-workers MP4s back into BPAV, but Clipbrowser doesn't see the files. Any more detailed suggestions? Thanks



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Craig Seeman
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Aug 2, 2009 at 12:52:08 am

ClipBrowser 2.5
File/Import
to import the MP4



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Ken Libby
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Aug 2, 2009 at 8:57:22 am

Thanks, Craig! I didn't know that ClipBrowser had been updated. Worked perfectly.



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Craig Seeman
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Aug 2, 2009 at 1:07:51 pm

[Ken Libby] "I didn't know that ClipBrowser had been updated."
Sony really doesn't publicize it that much even to EX users. Usually you have to stay on top of a forum like this and one of us will spot it.



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Nick Pel
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Aug 2, 2009 at 2:46:43 pm

Yeah, great post indeed Craig! I'll add that in order to see the Sony XDCAM option in the export menu in FCP you'll need to download the Sony XDCAM transfer codec (FPDZKP1A2) here:

https://servicesplus.us.sony.biz/sony-software-model-PDZKP1.aspx

So, instead of doing 2 steps:

.mov > FCP > .mp4 > Sony Clip Browser 2.5 > .mxf or .BPAV

Why not doing:

.mov > FCP > .mxf

I saw the option of converting it directly to .mxf on the sample video Craig posted in this thread.


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Nick Pel
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Aug 9, 2009 at 1:56:54 pm

I still have a problem.. I converted the hd .mov with a help of a friend who has FCP6 into .mxf files. I can view them with the sony xdcam viewer program but sony vegas 8 doesn't recognize them! Why?
How can I fix that?


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Craig Seeman
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Aug 9, 2009 at 2:22:52 pm

Does your version of Vegas 8 handle XDCAM EX MXF?
Only later versions do and Vegas 9




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Nick Pel
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Aug 9, 2009 at 2:33:27 pm

Mine is Sony 8.0b (build 217)


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Craig Seeman
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Aug 9, 2009 at 2:43:15 pm

Not sure but you might need version C.



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Nick Pel
Re: raw footage wrapped as .mov on a PC
on Sep 26, 2009 at 7:50:56 pm

Version 9 did the job perfectly!

Many thanks to all of you! Without the support of the board members my short wouldn't exist!!!







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