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david masterson
ex1 package
on Jun 23, 2009 at 8:20:14 pm

I am looking at moving from pd170 to the ex1. in the field I am thinking a laptop to download to might be best bet.... any thoughts

RD


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Craig Seeman
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 23, 2009 at 8:47:26 pm

Getting two to four 32GB SDHC cards (nearly 2 hours recording time on each) may avoid offload in the field. My concern about offload in the field is both the needs for laptop and increased chance of human error during offload. One must ensure the reliability of the SDHC cards though.

I do use a 15" MacBookPro with built in Express port but now that's only available on the 17" MacBookPro unless of course you want to get a Windows Laptop. Personally I think Laptop plus Offload in the Field is a dangerous combination.

Two 32GB SxS cards will be about $1700.
Four 32GB SDHC Transcend Class 6 cards with MxR type adaptors will run a little over $300

Laptop risks include:
Risk to Laptop itself
Risk while removing cards from camera during shoot
Risk of file damage during offload if rushed/not checking carefully
Risk when deleting clips on laptop
Risk of laptop or other hard drive crash
Risk of formating wrong card in camera
People will swear up and down that they're careful but it only takes ONE accident to lose laptop, lost master clip, need to reshoot, lose client. It's just WAY TOO MANY points of failure for me.



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david masterson
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 23, 2009 at 8:56:13 pm

good points....thank you


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Craig Seeman
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 23, 2009 at 9:18:16 pm

Meant to say 4 32GB SDHC cards about $600. 2 32GB SDHC about $300.

Given the cost of a good laptop and the risks involved I'd even consider 2 SxS cards over a laptop but 4 SCHC could give you nearly 8 hours of continuous recording and if under 4 hours, no card change at all.



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Michael Palmer
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 23, 2009 at 9:27:34 pm

Craig makes a good point here and it is much safer to copy the media back in the office.

But I never go on location without my MBP 17" 2.4 Intel. I don't always need it however it is a great tool to take with you for coping media, reviewing footage away from camera, and even editing. I am convinced that the Mac Book Pro computers are a solid solution when working with the Sony EX CAMERAS.



Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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david masterson
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 23, 2009 at 11:00:28 pm

Because the "tape-less" stuff is new to me I was thinking dumped to a laptop, reviewed, knowing its all there. Mostly just an archive unit / viewing is what I was thinking...but thats about 1000 for this unit( with 16 in.mon.) so for another 700 I do 2 32GB cards .... depending on camewra set choices wonder what I can exspect to see as far as filling these two cards up?
D


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Tim Kolb
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 24, 2009 at 1:56:55 pm

It sounds like you probably have friends with P2 cameras...

With P2 cards, there were no low-cost media options so many videographers needed to carry a means to wrangle media in the field. Keep in mind that two factors make the EX1/3 a different animal.

First, DVC ProHD is 40 Mbit/s in 24PN mode or 100Mbit/s in regular P mode...and the EX1 is 35 Mbit/s in the highest quality mode (inter-frame may have it's detractors, but hey-look at the pictures)

Second, media is far denser now for the pricepoint, so you can store much more data before you run out of space for the same dollar investment.

I usually have a Laptop somewhere in the mix (and yes, Windows computers work just fine with EX1 data), but typically it's more for an option as opposed to needing to clear cards. I usually offload cards at the hotel or the office, but I go immediately to two drives (redundant).




TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,


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david masterson
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 25, 2009 at 2:24:36 pm

this is what I am considering for my laptop...I relly dont need to view it in the field just really want it as a storage/ back up system...your thoughts

ASUS P8600 2.4g/4GB/320G/SM/VP//6-CEL/16"/
they want 983.95


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david masterson
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 23, 2009 at 11:03:30 pm

is there a diff in cards...quailty...storage...sony vs sandisc etc

also...know any good video clips " how to basics' for the ex1

D


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Craig Seeman
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 23, 2009 at 11:48:07 pm

Sony and Sandisk codeveloped SxS (Guess what the two S's stand for).

As for SDHD that's another matter. There seems to be changes in Sandisk vs Transcend and the latter is taking the lead of late. Then there's Hoodman which is double the price and only 16GB (no 32GB).

There are two how to basic DVDs worth getting.
http://callboxlive.com/instructional-dvds/cameras/sony-ex1-guidebook.html
and
http://www.vortexmedia.com/DVD_EX1.html
http://www.vortexmedia.com/DVD_EX3.html
and this for paper
http://www.vortexmedia.com/FIELD_GUIDES.html



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Brent Dunn
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 24, 2009 at 1:00:54 am

I have the Vortex DVD and the field guide. Sony actually will give you a field guide if you buy the camera this month along with a $500 gift card for their sony style shopping.

I'm happy with the Vortex stuff, very easy to watch and follow. It helps get things up and running fast and he makes the workflow clear. I use it as a reference now in case I forget something (brain getting smaller).

Get the Transcend 32 G cards. $109 and they have a package with a USB reader for plugging it into the computer for uploading. I had to order twice because they were limiting the orders due to demand.
They can be found at this price on NewEgg.com.

Brent Dunn
DunnRight Video.com


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david masterson
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 24, 2009 at 1:29:01 am

Transcend 32 G cards...?..Its starting to get confusing. Sony cards or after market cards...I was thinking two 16 gb cards would do but now I am thinking not...maybe two 32's is better

I am still thinking that I might need the new laptop anyway to download when I am in the field...meaning back at the hotel
I like to think I shoot smart but shooting outdoor production, from fishing to sky diving, from dark to dark sometimes, I better be able to dump and reload... I have looked at storgae units but a tricked up laptop from B&H for a grand would give me 500 Gb hd to work with

I am open to sug. as this will end up being a ten-k investment for me

Thanks for any input in advance

youtube.com/trophyquest


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Brent Dunn
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 25, 2009 at 1:44:44 am

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208480

Here is the link for the 32 Gig Transcend Class 6 SDHC card with a USB Card Reader $111.00 $109 without the card reader, but for 2 bucks it's worth the extra help.

http://www.hoodmanusa.com/products.asp?dept=1063
This is the company that supply's the SxS adaptor that will take an SD card and allow you to use it in your EX 1 SxS slot. $49.99

They also make compatable SD cards, but they are pricey and only 16 G.

I know it's confusing if your just starting to look. I used this forum to make my decision, so I repeat what these kind gentlemen have shared with others (they are much smarter than me).

You can buy a 32 Gig Sony SxS card from B&H for around $850. Great cards that allow you to use the overcranking feature (slow mo). If you have big pockets, these are the best and fastest cards.

A workable and well tested by everyone in this forum has been an adapter made by a company in Australia. Recently, HoodmanUSA, known by photographer's for the high quality SD cards, became the sole distributor here in the USA.

SDHC Class 6 Card Breakdown:
The Transcend Class 6 32 Gig cards and the Hoodman 16 Gig Cards have been proven compatable with the EX-1 & EX-3 cameras using the SxS adapter from Hoodman.

There have been Compatability problems with other cards including SanDisc, so stick with the above choices.

Ten 32 Gig Transcend Class 6 X $110 + $1,100. That's about what you'll pay for the laptop your talking about. These cards add up to 320 Gig of storage space. Original Format, no hard drive failure, no transfering in the field.

There you go! My ten cent tour. Good Luck!

Brent Dunn
DunnRight Video.com


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david masterson
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 25, 2009 at 2:43:28 pm

a few questions to your post -

Q.
Two 32GB SxS cards will be about $1700.
Four 32GB SDHC Transcend Class 6 cards with MxR type adaptors will run a little over $300
q- why the big diff in price

Laptop risks include:
Risk to Laptop itself q. agreed

Risk while removing cards from camera during shoot q. what do you mean while removing,

Risk of file damage during offload if rushed/not checking carefully q. file damage? checked?

Risk when deleting clips on laptop q. agreed, cant do that
Risk of laptop or other hard drive crash q. maybe a mirror drive as well?
Risk of formatting wrong card in camera. q. I am new to the ex1 so I will learn what I need to

People will swear up and down that they're careful but it only takes ONE accident to lose laptop, lost master clip, need to reshoot, lose client. It's just WAY TOO MANY points of failure for me.


q. I agree...I have had tape issues in the past that cost me big time, this is why I am going to ex1 and why I was thinking a laptop in the field might be the ticket. Reason is when I am in Brazil in November, in the jungle for ten days, I want to be able to take my cards( even if I end up buying two 32's and the Transcend cards) and have them ready to go the next day..
Sure, this will be time and labor to do this but when I am that far from office and real world I have to be prepared to do what ever it takes to keep things moving smoothly in the bush.... still open for sug.
Thanks
D


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Brent Dunn
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 25, 2009 at 7:39:32 pm

David:

The Sony SxS media cards are the media made for the camera. Sony & SanDisk partnered up to create this technology. The speed of these cards are extremely fast, more than 10x the speed of the SD Class 6 cards. They currently are the only player in this market, so they can set there price. But, the price last year was $1,500 for just one 32 Gig. Now B&H has dropped it below $850. These are the best cards for the camera if you have an unlimited budget. The camera comes with one 8 Gig. I use it for my special overcranking (slow-mo shots). The SD cards cannot handle the processing speed required for this. That's the only downside to the SD cards at this point.

Also, Flash media will hold up to extreme conditions, such as the jungle, humidity, dropping in the toilet, washing machine, dryer (I've pretty much done all of these at some point). Hard drives can fail. At least use two hard drives if your going to use that method for redundancy.

Brent Dunn
DunnRight Video.com


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david masterson
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 25, 2009 at 7:48:24 pm

I agree

so...looks like I will end up with the 8 GB card that comes with the camera, and I wil order one 16 and one 32...all sxs cards. That should give me plenty rec. time( 16 GB per hour yes?)

The laptop I am getting has the 2 HD's so I will have back up.

D


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Brent Dunn
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 26, 2009 at 10:00:03 pm

Take a look at the cost of the 16 vs 32 SxS. There isn't a big difference. I'd pony up the few extra $ and get two 32's. Yes, around an hour of best quality settings for 16G, more if you shoot at a low rez.

Brent Dunn
Creative Director
DunnRight Video.com


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david masterson
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 26, 2009 at 11:10:47 pm

I did...got two 32s and an 8 that comes with the ex1

Just spoke to my buddy who owns a RED so he rained my ex1 parade...lol

D


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Craig Seeman
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 27, 2009 at 12:19:46 am

[david masterson] "Just spoke to my buddy who owns a RED so he rained my ex1 parade...lol "

Let's see what happens if he has to go out and do a shoot solo. With RED you have to leave house with your crew in tow. Graeme Nattress apparently does shoot his family video with it but that's a Graeme thing. I'm sure his kid does focus pulling and data wrangling as well. It in the genes.




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Brent Dunn
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 24, 2009 at 1:23:13 am

By the way, I just sold two of my PD 170's to B&H Video. They buy used gear and you can get a free quote online. If the gear checks out, they contact you and send you a check.

I also sold a 94 Mustang that was sitting in my driveway for 2 years to buy the EX 1. Imagine that, a car for a camera.....something doesn't seem to fit...hmmm. But, it's the camera to have.

Brent Dunn
DunnRight Video.com


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david masterson
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 24, 2009 at 1:42:02 am

rrr

yep, B&H is a storehause for sure. I bought 2 pd170s in the past. I will more than likely keep the 170 to use as a 2nd BUC as I bet I couldnt get more than 1500 for it...been a great camera but have to move away from tape and into HD all the way...I an so ready to dive in but just had to wait for the gigs to be there to justf. the ten k invest....

I hope to order everthing, camera, laptop, new mics, sticks, and a nice mat box to trick it out for the ppl. that think big is better...lol..sometime next week

I have a 12' Kessler crane I cant wait to put the ex1 on too

D




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Rafael Amador
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 24, 2009 at 2:27:01 am

[david masterson] "st. I will more than likely keep the 170 to use as a 2nd BUC"
Hi David,
Sell your PD-170.
When you will have your EX-1 you won't want to shoot with DVCam anymore.
rafael


http://www.nagavideo.com


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Darrell Beck
Re: ex1 package
on Jun 25, 2009 at 3:41:50 am

No need to spend a ton on the laptop if your only using it to clean off your cards at the hotel. For the first time, this summer I will be overseas on my first broadcast shoot (which meant upgrading from PD150's to EX1's. I purchased this to dump footage:

http://tinyurl.com/n3vxfu

This unit comes with an express card slot. One of the first things I did was upgrade the hard drive with a 500 gig instead of the 160. I will also be bringing a few external hard drives for backup. I will ship one copy of the footage back to the states, the other copy I'll keep with me.

Now, this tiny laptop does have its advantages and disadvantages. First, I love the size, and the battery lasts 3.5 hours. It will not weigh me down having this tiny thing in a backpack. The disadvantage is the small screen, and processing speed. You will NOT have smooth playback of your video on it - if you wanted to review footage at the hotel.

Just another option...
darrell


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