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Fear of SDHC cards

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Bob Mark
Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 16, 2009 at 12:40:53 pm

With all of these posts about problems with the SDHC cards I'm getting hesitant to use them.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 16, 2009 at 1:18:45 pm

I've been using them since January and have never lost a clip. I've never even had a media restore message. When you get the cards test though throughly. I run them through twice with a continuous record. I then do a series of short clips keeping to the stop/start rule of waiting until the file is written before starting again. Keep in mind these cards are not like hard drives. They really don't have moving parts that fail. If the card has a defect you should be able to find it fast.



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Bob Mark
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 16, 2009 at 4:05:11 pm

I'm very glad to hear that. I will follow your suggestions. Thanks.

Bob


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Michael Palmer
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 16, 2009 at 4:56:47 pm

Bob,
I took the $70 gamble (Transcend 16 gig SDHC class 6 card/MxR adapter) and tested it for a few cycles and I completely trust that it is a viable alternative to the pricey SxS cards. At a tenth of the cost it works for me.

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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Rod Minott
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 16, 2009 at 4:43:20 pm

I then do a series of short clips keeping to the stop/start rule of waiting until the file is written before starting again.

Hi Craig,
Can you please elaborate on the start/stop rule? When using SDHC cards, how much of a delay is there after pausing record before you're able to resume recording your next shot? Doesn't this limit/slow down run and gun shooting situations where events are unfolding quickly? How does the start/stop lag using SDHC compare to using SxS cards?


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Michael Palmer
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 16, 2009 at 5:02:56 pm

I'm not Craig but the rule is that you must give the camera buffer time to complete the recording to the SDHC card before continuing the next clip. Just because you pressed the stop button and the Tally light goes off doesn't mean the camera isn't still working sending the data to the SDHC card. If you look at the card slot light it will remain RED up to 10 seconds, you must wait until it turns Green to continue or to remove the card.

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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Rod Minott
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 16, 2009 at 5:30:31 pm

Thanks, Michael. Is there a difference in the buffer time between the SDHC and the SxS cards? In other words, are the SxS cards faster and the SDHC cards slower?


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Michael Palmer
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 16, 2009 at 5:49:11 pm

The SxS cards work from the Express 34 bus and the SDHC cards work from USB technology. So yes the SxS is way faster technology. Plus as Craig has said many times here that Sony limits the USB controller so you can't take full advantage of the USB data transfer capabilities.

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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Craig Seeman
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 16, 2009 at 8:31:31 pm

Much of what I do is run and gun. I rarely have reason to start recording less than 5 seconds after I stop.
Having to offload a full SxS card on the other hand is a major handicap. Having to carry the laptop to do that is a major handicap.

Two 32GB SDHC cards keeps me going for nearly 4 hours and it's easy to buy a couple more if needed. That's not financially viable with SxS for me.

I generally have no problem giving the camera 5-7 seconds to finish the write after I stop recording.



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Rod Minott
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 16, 2009 at 8:50:11 pm


Thanks Craig and Michael.


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Noah Kadner
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 16, 2009 at 4:41:06 pm

Works fine for me.

Noah

Writing RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera!. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color.
Now featuring the Lens Adapter Guidebook, Sony EX1 Guidebook,
DVD Studio Pro and How to Light Interviews.
http://www.callboxlive.com


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Enrique Orozco
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 16, 2009 at 7:56:30 pm

Using 16 Gig Sandisk Ultra (plus MxR adapters) since January with my EX3... NEVER had a problem....

good luck

Enrique Orozco R.
http://www.dvideostudio.com >iDEA DigitalVideoStudio


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Craig Seeman
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 16, 2009 at 8:44:23 pm

Ultra II Class 2 are rock solid. It's the Class 4 that's giving everyone problems. Too bad Sandisk changed their manufacturing process. Amazing that Class 2 works and Class 4 (supposedly faster) does not.



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Akbar Ukani
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 16, 2009 at 10:53:44 pm

I am sure you read my post about my Sandisk SDHC card taking a huge ass dump on me 45 minutes into the shoot... look into the Sandisk 8Gb SxS cards...they are a little more expensive than the (card+adapter)....but if you ask me that extra cost is justified since you won't have the stress of making sure you hit the record button after 5-7 seconds every single time...and I rather go with 8Gb instead of 16 or 32 primarily because that way you are not putting ALL your eggs in one basket

well I am down bout $500 if not more trying to get contents off my SDHC card.....hopefully the data is there..if not all of it then majority of it......If not then I am down $4k and a bad rep for my business...

Akbar


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Craig Seeman
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 16, 2009 at 11:15:57 pm

If you look at the history of human error because one has to carry a laptop and offload SxS cards during a shoot with the pressure on and the meter running, you'd find SxS a VERY risky business. You can have a stack of reliable SDHC cards and shoot all day and even give/sell the client the card if they want to walk with the "master."

The ONLY risk with SDHC is buying untested brands or when manufacturers change something. It became obvious very quickly that when Sandisk changed the Ultra II from Class 2 to Class 4, that Class 4 had issues.

Transcend Class 6 has been very reliable. Hoodman now had their own QC'd cards which, while more expensive than others, are still magnitudes less expensive than SxS.

I find the entire SDHC workflow much more reliable than SxS. It's not just the card one must evaluate but the risks in the entire workflow.

While I never had a mishap with SxS I can tell you that first year I was using SxS only was a nightmare having to deal with a laptop and offloads during a shoot . . . especially the longer ones. I can now go to a shoot with no laptop and even no need to change cards (nearly 4 hours with two 32GB) which GREATLY REDUCES RISK for me.





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Akbar Ukani
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 17, 2009 at 5:16:32 am

Craig.....after what happened to me with the SDHC card (human error or not), I respectfully disagree with you but that is not to say that you are wrong

from my perspective and my situation, I think we are more prone to make human errors while on the shoot primarily because of being under the stress of making sure that we capture the moment in a split second......atleast that seems to be the case for someone like me who is into corporate videos and weddings (unfortunately my 16Gb card error is associated with a wedding which I was covering)....and given those circumstances I certainly would not want to worry about making sure that I have waited 5-7 seconds everytime I stop recording before hitting the record button again.....waiting a couple of seconds with an SxS card is certainly going to reduce the potential for human error far significantly I think...

Sandisks are selling the 8GB SxS cards for around $250 bucks while the Sony 32Gb SxS are around 800 ..which is expensive no doubt but think about it...you have spent $6k-$8k on the camera...might as well $2k more...besides I am not a big fan of 32Gb..why put all your eggs in one basket


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Craig Seeman
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 17, 2009 at 1:03:35 pm

Almost all my shoots are news (either run and gun or long speeches/press conferences). My shooting style but I never have a need to stop and start quickly. If I think something's going to happen I keep it running. I couldn't do that with SxS because I feared getting caught in an offload when the cards ran out.
Opening a laptop disrupts me and the event I'm shooting. With two to four 32GB cards there's no reason to be in a hurry to stop recording. 8GB cards were a complete nightmare given the frequent offloads.



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Bob Mark
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 17, 2009 at 1:16:11 pm

Sounds like you have a good system in place. Are these the cards you use?
Transcend TS32GSDHC6

Bob


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Craig Seeman
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 17, 2009 at 2:05:50 pm

Actually using this

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/563180-REG/SanDisk_SDSDRH_032G_A11_UL...

Sandisk 32GB Ultra II Class 2. It's the Class 4 version that's giving everyone problems. I'm not sure if the above is an old product shot though. I thought the Class 2 had been replaced by Class 4.
That's a great price especially when you include an additional $25 rebate.



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Bob Mark
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 17, 2009 at 5:29:44 pm

Thanks for that info. So get sandisk class 2 instead of 4?
Any idea if Transcend is more reliable?

Bob


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Martin Phillips
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 17, 2009 at 7:43:15 pm

It's very interesting reading everyone's experiences here. I think that it boils down to what works for you. My experience has been tarnished by 2 problems with these SDHC cards, which in the end were not catastrophic. Anyway, that was enough for me not to risk them any more. I decided that £800 for 2 16Gb Sony SxS cards was a price worth paying for the greater peace of mind and using the cards that were specifically designed for the camera. Let's face it the camera costs £6k for starters, so why economise on such a vital component?

The other day I accidentally switched the camera off whilst it was still recording (an interview got interrupted). Realised as soon as I had done it. Switched back on (in media mode) and footage all fine. Had I done this on an SDHC card who knows what would have happened to the previous 30 mins of footage? In the heat of the moment these things do happen - the 10 sec rule would catch me out too, I know.

So, yes, I had my fingers burnt and will not risk them again. Just my experience, for what it's worth! Martin.



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Scott Williams
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 18, 2009 at 5:38:17 am

Bought a Transcend 32GB SDHC Class 6 to use with a MXM adapter in my EX3...not a happy camper,on 2 occasions in the middle of long recordings the card just stopped and I got the "Media needs to be restored" error message. On both occasions I missed recording critical speeches while restoring the media. Both clients are pissed. I only use this SDHC/Adapter set up for controlled situations now.If you are a event videographer just spend the money on SXS.
B.T.W My MXM adapter get's stuck in my slot A,in B it ejects properly.


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Hector Mata
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 18, 2009 at 7:15:38 pm

Hello Craig, all
I have been using the San Disk SDHC cards 2 and 4. Class 4 have some problems: When inserted into a mac book pro, the computer does not recognize the card and ask to initialize it. But when inserted into a PC, the card and its information is ready right away. You can transfer the BPAV files from the card into another MAc compatible Hard Drive. I am still trying to figure it out the way to maybe reformat the class 4 cards...


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Michael Palmer
Re: Fear of SDHC cards
on Jun 21, 2009 at 3:29:31 pm

Please add your camera info to this link
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/142/865340

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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