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At least ours don't expire...

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Clint Fleckenstein
At least ours don't expire...
on May 14, 2009 at 1:32:02 pm

I still haven't bought any SD cards for my two MxR readers (been too busy, thankfully) but still have a hard time trusting that with footage I travel across the country to acquire. So far we're doing good with the allotment of SxS cards we have on hand. Prices continue to drop, which is good...although they'll obviously never be as cheap as SD (but presumably provide a little more piece of mind).

Having said that, at least our cards don't expire:

"The E-series cards are only rated for a five-year life span with daily use at full capacity (they’ll last longer if the cards are only used to a portion of capacity, and a P2 camera or card reader will display a notification as a card approaches the end of its useful life)..."

Seriously?

Cf

(Sorry if I have already mentioned this in an earlier thread, but I'm just a little surprised by the audacity of expiring media cards.)


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Michael Palmer
Re: At least ours don't expire...
on May 14, 2009 at 3:23:56 pm

IMO these predictions on life expectancy for solid state memory cards haven't really hit home to the tapeless video world. We are really just ginny pigs who haven't seen failures to these expensive SxS or P2 cards, and who really knows when the end of the cards life will be. We all would hope they last forever.

I'm completely comfortable using my SDHC 16 gig Transcend cards as needed and for some of us that don't use our SxS card every single business day well who knows maybe they will last forever.

But what is forever? Is there a shelf life? Will weather and climate play a factor? Will the connections fail before the memory? Is there any maintenance to enhance the memory life or contact cleaning and protection products we should be using to preserve the contact life?

Time will ultimately answer these questions.

Michael Palmer


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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: At least ours don't expire...
on May 15, 2009 at 1:51:29 pm

For sure, I don't expect a card to last forever. But when Panasonic announces that their cameras are going to work like a Brita pitcher, telling you that you only have so much time left on your card, that starts to sound fishy.


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Don Greening
Re: At least ours don't expire...
on May 15, 2009 at 4:38:27 pm

[Clint Fleckenstein] "But when Panasonic announces that their cameras are going to work like a Brita pitcher, telling you that you only have so much time left on your card, that starts to sound fishy."

"I'd like to buy a pre-paid disposable cell phone please. Oh, and a couple of those Panasonic P2e cards too, please."

- Don




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Michael Pruitt-Bruun
Re: At least ours don't expire...
on May 16, 2009 at 12:46:56 pm

M. Palmer is correct, what panasonic is telling you is what they should, that ss media have an uncertain number of writes before they get all wore out. that sony hasn't told you the same is not indicative of any less uncertainty.


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Chris Cardno
Re: At least ours don't expire...
on May 19, 2009 at 4:16:05 pm

Does anyone really think that this technology is still going to be in use in 10 years? I can't imagine we'll still be shooting P2 and SxS in it's current incarnation in 2019, we'll be on to something else by then. Actually, we'll probably be on to something else by 2011 at the current speed of technology. Given that, I'm happy to pay less for tech right now.

Just so long as we finally get the hover-cars and meals in pill form, that's all I'm asking for...

Chris Cardno
Visual Edge Productions
Bethesda, MD


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Craig Seeman
Re: At least ours don't expire...
on May 19, 2009 at 4:34:09 pm

The speed of change means that Return On Investment must happen faster.

While we may be amazed at the apparent drop in prices for cameras and ancillary gear, the competitive lifespan of such gear is a lot shorter than it used to be.

Personally I think P2 and SxS are very much short lived technologies. I think we'll be seeing SDHC that can handle uncompressed and/or devices like NanoFlash as built in to cameras.

Keep in mind that P2 and even SxS were developed at a time when SDHC/CF recording devices weren't quite there yet.

BTW I also see XDCAM Disc as something that will start to wane soon (or have to undergo a major change).



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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: At least ours don't expire...
on May 19, 2009 at 6:14:57 pm

"BTW I also see XDCAM Disc as something that will start to wane soon (or have to undergo a major change)."

Yeah...nanoseconds after they finally get the PDW-U1 working as promised :-)

(Not meaning to be snarky, I just couldn't resist)

Cf


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Michael Palmer
Re: At least ours don't expire...
on May 19, 2009 at 6:49:14 pm

I believe we won't see too many broad strokes as both Sony and Panasonic will milk what they have and these cards will be around for at least 10 years.

With a $16,000 optical deck (Sony PDW-F75 XDCAM HD Recorder) it wouldn't seem possible Sony would ever consider dumping this type of technology.

The problem with getting uncompressed on a SDHC is that SLC memory would be needed and it takes much more real-estate than the MLC memory of the SDHC cards on the market. It might be possible but you wouldn't have enough record time.



http://www.supertalent.com/datasheets/SLC_vs_MLC%20whitepaper.pdf


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Craig Seeman
Re: At least ours don't expire...
on May 19, 2009 at 9:23:37 pm

Convergent Designjuses Compact Flash cards in NanoFlash. Bit rates over 100mbps go to two CF cards.
List price is about $3000
Heck they even show it hooked to an EX1 on their product page.
http://www.convergent-design.com/CD_Products_nanoFlash.htm

CD cards (and SDHC) aren't quite as cheap as XDCAM disc but the prices are dropping.

The Brochure
http://69.15.88.17/downloads/nanoFlash/nanoFlash_Brochure.pdf
even mentions
Visually Lossless Full-Raster XDCAM HD 4:2:2 100 Mbps CODEC (from Sony)
and
Unique CompactFlashBased Design
Kingston 133X 32GB (≈ US $75) for up to 140 Mbps
SanDisk Extreme III 32GB (≈ US $175) for 160 Mbps
Hot-swappable, seamlessly switches recording from card to card

I know you know this but when Three 32GB SxS cards cost about $3000 even with the new lower price, certainly $3000 for a nanoFlash seems more cost effective.

It's not about Sony (or Panasonic) making the decision, it's the market. Just as MxR/M/Hoodman has impacted SxS.

I can't help but think XDCAM disc and the expensive proprietary readers are going to get pushed out of the way. I can't help but think SxS (and P2) are rapidly loosing their value in the marketplace regardless of what Sony and Panasonic want.



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Kent Hamson
Re: At least ours don't expire...
on Jun 30, 2009 at 11:25:51 pm

Thank you for posting the SLC v. MLC whitepaper. I really found that interesting.

It also plays into the new E Series P2 Cards. The A Series P2 Cards use SLC Flash chips and the E Series use MLC Flash chips.

The white paper discusses that SLC chips are an industrial grade chip while the MLC are "Consumer" chips.

Panasonic states that the A Series cards are good for 30,000+ cycles of use. That is if they are recorded to capacity once per day it would last for over 80 years!

The E Series cards they state are guaranteed for 5 years of full capacity every day which is 1825 recording cycles. If not used to full capacity or not used every day they can last much longer.

All of the memory chips in the P2 and SxS cards will eventually fail. Panasonic just chooses to tell their customers on the front end what they can expect as a life expectancy. You have to give them props for that.

http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/faq/P2_E-Series_Cards_faq.pdf



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