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Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?

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Brent Dunn
Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 20, 2009 at 8:03:49 pm

I had a Panasonic rep show me a P2 card cracked open. It had 2 SD cards inside. What a ripoff to those poor people who purchased the P2 technology. Now if someone would be kind enough to expose Sony's SxS card internal workings? Maybe we can all pitch in a $1 and have a SxS sacrifice?


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Clint Fleckenstein
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 20, 2009 at 8:22:54 pm

Panasonic wasn't hiding that information. When they first came around pitching P2, they showed that it was (at that time) four high speed (at that time) SD cards bridged by their proprietary architecture to achieve the transfer rates required by their hardware and codec. In fact, some of their product literature at the time had cutaway photos of the cards. If they were bragging on anything, it was that their card's internal design made SD cards fast enough to do what they required for tapeless HD.

That's the other key to the SxS being faster than the USB-based SD adapters for the Sony EX cameras, from my understanding. Sony's cards have PCI Express-based internals, where the MxR or MxM have USB-based guts.

Cf


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Craig Seeman
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 20, 2009 at 8:28:16 pm

We should be aware that we're not just paying for the hardware but the the R&D.

That said, the JVC HM series cameras use the XDCAM EX codec on SDHC Class 6 cards and can achieve 720p30/60 overcrank so I've been told. SxS technology doesn't seem to carry a very heavy advantage over that. The SDHC Class 6 cards apparently can handle the data rate and that it is the interface (both hardware and firmware) that is key.

Also note that Sony enable the use of USB for their 60GB hard drive which cost in the neighborhood of $1000. Currently though you can get 2 32GB Transcend SDHC Class 6 cards for a little over $200.

If it's at all possible, one would hope Sony would find a way to support 2x overcrank on SDHC as JVC as done using the same codec.



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Don Greening
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 20, 2009 at 9:00:35 pm

As a footnote, Sony has just reduced the price of the 32 Gig SxS Pro cards by roughly 40%. B&H Photo has already dropped their online price to $999.99.

Sony also announced the introduction of a 240 Gbyte XDCAM EX cartridge/storage device at about the same time. Called the PHX-MS240 and has dual USB and eSATA computer connections. That's about all I know about it.

- Don


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Craig Seeman
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 20, 2009 at 9:22:24 pm

[Don Greening] "As a footnote, Sony has just reduced the price of the 32 Gig SxS Pro cards by roughly 40%. B&H Photo has already dropped their online price to $999.99."

I heard about that. Let's see. $999 vs $105 and in the case of JVC that $105 can overcrank 2x as well.
I've certainly heard that the price of SxS vs SDHC is a major factor in the purchase decisions many make.

[Don Greening] "Sony also announced the introduction of a 240 Gbyte XDCAM EX cartridge/storage device at about the same time. Called the PHX-MS240 and has dual USB and eSATA computer connections."

I heard about $2000 give or take. I can get a MacBookPro for that which I can show playback of offloaded clips without stopping the camera and even do a rough cut.

Granted one may want something smaller than a laptop but I can buy and save a whole bunch of Transcend 16GB cards to get the same storage for less. You have to have a specific set of circumstances (and I'm sure they exist for some) to want to spend $2000 for 240GB of portable storage.




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Baz Leffler
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 21, 2009 at 12:42:00 am

Lets face it... people who do their homework get to take advantage of the 'cheaper' solutions eg MxM MxR etc - those 'smart' people are us!

But for every 'smart' person there has gotta be at least 10 'not-so-smart' people who will go and buy those overpriced Sony SxS solutions; thats what Sony rely on. Let a few slip thru the loop but who cares, a 10:1 ratio will still make them a profit.

I know at least 5 owner/operators of ex1/ex3 camera's here in Sydney who had no idea of a cheaper SxS solution. I use the word 'had' as I have now wised them up. And I have also made a bit of money selling them some old Fuginon zoom demand units to go with their camera's as well!

Baz

What would I do without the 'UNDO' button!!!!


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Craig Seeman
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 21, 2009 at 1:27:50 am

[Baz Leffler] "But for every 'smart' person there has gotta be at least 10 'not-so-smart' people who will go and buy those overpriced Sony SxS solutions; thats what Sony rely on"

That would be the case if there were no other camera options. With JVC using XDCAM EX on SDHC and Panasonic using SDHC for many of their "prosumer" cameras,

Sony puts itself in a difficult price point with the perceived cost of ownership, I think. Those who find SxS expensive (and unaware of Mx solutions) are increasingly likely these days to buy different camera than buy Sony with SxS. Keep in mind SxS may also mean that one must consider buying a laptop and the burden of carrying it for many shoots too.

I also think SxS sales are inherently limited. At their current prices, most people buy just another card or two at most and if they do need more then they'll either rent or consider whether the EX is the right camera for their workflow.

I strongly suspect Sony makes (or looses) more money on camera sales than SxS cards.





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Don Greening
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 21, 2009 at 3:46:03 am

Here's the preliminary scoop on that new Sony mobile storage unit. This is another device that uses the BP-U30 battery for power. Straight from the the COW News Droid:

http://news.creativecow.net/story/861804

- Don




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Kevin Wild
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 21, 2009 at 5:14:03 am

Wait a minute, I'm one of those "not so smart" people who just bought a 32GB card.

I'm all for the cheap solutions, but I also deal with a zero-mistake, zero-error type of clientele in the high end corporate world. So, it's not crazy to get 2 good working SxS cards: one for each of our EX3 and EX1. These will be our main cards for everything.

Now that they each have their tried and true, I'll go cheap. :-)

By the way, I was glad to see them under $1000. I just ordered one last week for $1500. D'oh! That hurts...I knew it and even pestered the Abel Cine sales guy, who said he had no knowledge of a price drop. Lame.



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Don Greening
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 21, 2009 at 5:47:38 am

[Kevin Wild] "I knew it and even pestered the Abel Cine sales guy, who said he had no knowledge of a price drop. Lame. "

He probably didn't know, since Sony only very recently announced the price reduction. I talked to my own Sony broadcast supply person this afternoon and he didn't know much about the price drop, either. He thought it was still just a rumor and he certainly didn't know that places like B&H Photo had already dropped their prices.

I guess I'm not all that bright either, Kevin. We'll both keep each other company in the "Not-So-Smart" penalty box.

- Don



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Craig Seeman
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 21, 2009 at 6:11:38 am

Kevin, Sony has a has a $500 rebate on SxS 32GB card. Purchase between 2/1 and 3/31
Sony SxS 32GB card rebate
So you should check on your eligibility.



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David Issko
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 21, 2009 at 6:53:25 am

Stick me in the 'not so smart' group because I have 4 of the 32Gb SxS cards (and 6 8Gb sxs as well) knowing full well about the cheaper alternatives, but I'm from Melbourne!



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Dean Sensui
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 21, 2009 at 10:28:35 am

[Craig Seeman] "We should be aware that we're not just paying for the hardware but the the R&D."

It's the same way with a house. We're not paying for lumber. We're paying for the skills involved in its design and construction.

Dean Sensui -- Hawaii Goes Fishing


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Brent Dunn
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 21, 2009 at 1:31:45 pm

Thanks for the info. I'm preparing to buy my first Ex1. This forum will save me a lot of grief and money. I didn't know about the MxR adapter. Someone had mentioned this to me in passing a few months ago, but since I'm still currently tape based, it went right through both ears.

I see prices dropping on the SxS.


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Ronnie Martin
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 24, 2009 at 6:49:40 pm

At NAB I bought one of the Hoodman sxs replacements complete with 16gig RAW card and usb reader for $180. I also have two of the MXR cards and the Hoodman is much easier to place and remove from the EX-3.


Ronnie Martin
http://www.dirtracingvideo.com

Ronnie Martin
Kato Video Productions
http://www.dirtracingvideo.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 24, 2009 at 7:29:31 pm

Have you tried overcranking with the Hoodman SDHC card?
They claim 720p24/48 but I've already heard from one person that wasn't so in their test.

I'll mention this now that according to what I believe to be a reliable source is the the Hoodman adaptor itself is the MxM (unless something has changed).
MxM actually said on their webpage that they were the source for Hoodman (and that's NOT the only place I heard that from. I got the confirmation elsewhere).
I believe the MxM is coming from the same manufacturing source as MxR

In other words the adaptors are all the same.

SDHC cards are another story.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on Apr 24, 2009 at 7:24:56 pm

From MxM web site and someone else said this is the case.

http://mxmexpress.com/







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Brent Dunn
Re: Guess what's inside a P2 card? How about the SxS?
on May 7, 2009 at 4:33:51 am

Thanks for keeping us up to date. Hoodman does have a really good track record in the Photography World for the relability of their SDHC cards.


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