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How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac

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Allen Cavedo
How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 21, 2009 at 2:30:11 pm

This may have been covered, but I searched and found nothing.

I have an EX1 and two 8GB SxS cards. With both cards are in the EX1 I want to record until the the card in slot A is full and the camera switches to slot B. Then remove SxS card from slot A and pop it in my Macbook Pro for download with XDCAM into FCP. Here's the part I cannot figure out, how can I then from FCP or XDCAM delete all the files on the SxS card so I can put it back in slot A and continue recording on it when the SxS card in slot B is full?

The only way I can get all the files off the SxS card now is to format it in the EX1, which cannot be done while recording.



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Craig Seeman
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 21, 2009 at 2:59:31 pm

Use ClipBrowser to copy the files (with CRC on) and once copied you can select all the clips on the card in ClipBrowser and delete.

You certainly can format one card in the camera while the other is recording but that's certainly taking a high risk though.



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Noah Kadner
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 21, 2009 at 6:13:52 pm

Yeah I'd be very very leery of this- you might lose footage before having a chance to check it. I'd suggest getting more SxS cards or a second EX1 to support this workflow. Or get the MxR reader and shoot to SDHC cards, those are a dime a dozen.

Noah

Check out My My FCP Blog and my new RED Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook,
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http://www.callboxlive.com


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Allen Cavedo
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 22, 2009 at 11:04:11 pm

Thanks! I have not checked in this forum for a year and a lot has happened in the memory world. I spent the last several hours reading up on the whole MxR, KxS, MxM, etc. thing and I got a new download of the Clip Browser. Both are very helpful.



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cowcowcowcowcow
Mitch Lewis
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 23, 2009 at 5:45:55 pm

You can delete all the clips off your SxS card using Clip Browser. Then you could use the workflow you're suggesting.

1) Start shooting on Card-A
2) Card-A fills up and camera switches to Card-B
3) Remove Card-A and insert into MBP
4) Transfer all clips from Card-A to your hard drive using Clip Browser (with CRC turned on)
5) Delete all files from SxS card using Clip Browser
6) Put Card-A back into camera
7) When Card-B fills up camera automatically switches to Card-A
8) Repeat steps 3 thru 6 using Card-B

NOTE: Using the Clip Browser software, if you copy all your clips from both cards into the same folder on your hard drive, Clip Browser will join any clips that spanned 2 or more cards. You'll end up with one long clip instead of two (or more) clips. I used this technique to record nonstop for 7 hours. I had a helper transferring the clips to a hard drive so I could continue shooting. (it was a long day!)

Sony EX3, Letus Ultimate, Nikon lenses, Sachtler tripod
20 years as a videographer/editor - HD and 35mm adaptor newbie
Experienced with Apple products, Final Cut Studio, Adobe Creative Suite, MOTU Digital Performer, Flip4Mac, etc...


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Steve Hirsch
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 23, 2009 at 9:54:13 pm

Curious... Why is there no mention of using the Sony XDCAM Transfer? That's what I use. Then after the transfer and after checking a few clips, I trash the BPAV folder on the card and put it back in the camera. Should I be getting familiar with the Sony EX Clip Browser instead?

Thank you,
Steve



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Don Greening
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 23, 2009 at 10:11:57 pm

[Steve Hirsch] "Curious... Why is there no mention of using the Sony XDCAM Transfer?"

Because Clip Browser is what's used to copy BPAV folders in their entirety from the cards to hard drive in preparation for archiving. Clip Browser will also down-convert to SD as well as transcode/re-wrap the native EX .mp4 files into other wrappers for use with other XDCAM formats, etc.

XDCAM Transfer is for importing and at the same time "un-wrapping" the native .mp4 files and "re-wrapping" them for use in programs such as Final Cut Pro.

- Don



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Mitch Lewis
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 23, 2009 at 10:15:21 pm

Don's process is the same as mine. Clip Browser for transferring the files to hard drive for archiving. But then I point XDCAM Transfer to that same hard drive where it unwraps the clips and saves them on our editing system RAID. So the clips end up residing in three places:

1) The portable hard drive that Clip Browser transfered to
2) The RAID that XDCAM Transfer unwrapped them to
3) The drive we use to backup our RAID (using Apple Time Machine)

Sony EX3, Letus Ultimate, Nikon lenses, Sachtler tripod
20 years as a videographer/editor - HD and 35mm adaptor newbie
Experienced with Apple products, Final Cut Studio, Adobe Creative Suite, MOTU Digital Performer, Flip4Mac, etc...


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Michael Slowe
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 26, 2009 at 10:27:41 pm

Don, reverting to one of your mails in this thread I don't use Clip Browser at all but still save my camera original files. I merely download the complete BPAV folder from the card into a suitably labelled folder (keeping BPAV in the title) on to an external drive. The drive has a Lindy Sata 2 card reader and this goes into a MacBook laptop straight on to the external drive. Seems OK, I have the files and they go into the Transfer for importing into my edit system in a G5. You seem to indicate that this would be wrong?

Michael Slowe


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Craig Seeman
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 26, 2009 at 11:21:08 pm

[Michael Slowe] "I don't use Clip Browser at all"

This is an accident waiting to happen.

[Michael Slowe] "You seem to indicate that this would be wrong? "
Is driving without seat belts wrong? You think everything is OK until you get into the accident.
ClipBrowser with CRC on makes sure your copy is good.

They day you lose a master clip and have to eat the cost of a reshoot or lose the client entirely may be the day you wish you used ClipBrowser. Sorry if this sounds harsh but it is. Not using ClipBrowser is an unnecessary risk. The only viable alternative is to buy ShootPut which also verifies the file copy.

Better that I say this now then witness some future post about attempts to rescue a corrupted master clip.





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Don Greening
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 27, 2009 at 3:22:54 am

Hi Michael,

All anyone's saying is that Clip Browser has a built in error checking mechanism to guard against something not getting copied properly. The way the program actually duplicates everything somewhere else probably isn't much different than the drag and drop method but it's just this safety net of CRC checking that people are on about.

- Don


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Craig Seeman
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 23, 2009 at 10:43:52 pm

[Steve Hirsch] "Then after the transfer and after checking a few clips, I trash the BPAV folder on the card and put it back in the camera."

So you throw out your camera masters? Yikes?
So what happens in the eventuality that you must use the files on a non FCP system? Sure there are solutions these days but you can surely and easily lock yourself into a bad situation.



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Steve Hirsch
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 23, 2009 at 11:01:49 pm

Yikes is right! Thank you to everyone that posted information on this subject. And now that I have a better understanding between the Sony transfer app and the browser app, I will definitely be changing my workflow.

Steve


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Craig Seeman
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 23, 2009 at 11:15:08 pm

First step is ClipBrowser with CRC checking on to copy BPAV.
XDCAM Transfer to rewrap to .mov.
Back up that BPAV to another location as well. Optical disk, secure hard drive, etc.

Those BPAVs will allow you to move source media to another computer whether Mac or Windows whether FCP system or not.

You can even export your final XDCAM EX edit master from FCP wrapped to .mp4 again if it needs to travel to a non FCP system.



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Scott Howard
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 24, 2009 at 4:23:18 pm

Just to throw out more workflow thoughts.
I use Clip Browser to copy to hard drive and make a DL-DVD copy for archive and then delete files.
I use Log and Transfer to copy any files off the hard drive I want into FCP.
I never use XDCam Transfer and it seems a lot of people do. I just didn't seem to find it useful or easier to use for anything I'm doing, maybe I'm missing something.
What I really wish is that all the apps shared some file names and metadata - again maybe I'm missing something and I realize some is specific to each NLE. But it's a time consuming process to rename all the time.



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cowcowcowcowcow
Bruce Schultz
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 25, 2009 at 7:21:37 pm

To throw in even another workflow; I use the Shotput program (available as a download for OSX or Win) to download the entire contents of an SxS or MxM expresscard simultaneously to up to 3 different storage locations.

One is to the laptop drive, Second to a USB or Firewire external drive and third is optionally to either a 16 gig SDHC card or a Sandisk 16 gig Cruzer stick (both of these final storage options are in the event that I've only shot less than a full 16 gig SxS card that day). Shotput has the added value of error-checking the file transfers for accuracy.

Shotput can then automatically erase the SxS card in the ExpressCard slot - which is then ready to go back into the EX camera.

When I've backed up to 2 or even 3 different media sources external to the SxS camera original, I'm not too worried at that point about erasing the camera original because if there were any problems with the footage at this point, they were on the original footage anyway. BTW, I've not lost 1 frame of footage from the EX-1 in over a year of near-daily use.

All of the transferred footage can then be viewed by Clip Browser or an NLE.

Bruce Schultz
F900R/EX-1
LA-based IATSE 600


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caleb crosby
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 26, 2009 at 12:34:42 am

In the field, I just load the sxs card onto the mbp and manually copy the bpav from the sxs card to named folders I create on a portable drive. (I always place it into 2 separate drives before erasing). Then it's a mirror of what was shot and opens later through either xd transfer or clip browser. So, why use any program? And what is this CRS (?) option thing anyway?

Caleb Crosby
EX1. Letus Xtreme.


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cowcowcowcow
Mitch Lewis
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 26, 2009 at 12:44:51 am

You are playing with fire my friend. : )

Sony explicitly states in their documentation that you should only copy footage from an SxS card using their Clip Browser software. The software defaults to "Preform CRC check after copy" in the software preferences. CRC stands for Cyclic Redundancy Check. It confirms that the data was successfully copied from one location to another. Here's what Wikipedia has to say about CRC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_redundancy_check

It all depends on how important that footage is to you. If this is just a hobby then no worries. But if you're getting paid to shoot, then loosing footage is a big no, no.

There have been lots of complaints on DVInfo.net about people loosing their footage due to incorrect file transfer. But maybe you'll get lucky. I'm crossing my fingers for you. :)

Sony EX3, Letus Ultimate, Nikon lenses, Sachtler tripod
20 years as a videographer/editor - HD and 35mm adaptor newbie
Experienced with Apple products, Final Cut Studio, Adobe Creative Suite, MOTU Digital Performer, Flip4Mac, etc...


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Craig Seeman
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 26, 2009 at 1:03:09 am

caleb, you can spend your entire life driving without wearing a seat belt and yet it only takes once accident to be maimed or killed.

One bad master clip and you can eat the cost of a reshoot or lose the client altogether. I again saw a presentation by Sony on the EX cameras. He wasn't even asked the question, he stated VEHEMENTLY that you use Clip Browser and NEVER use Mac Finder or Window Explorer (desktop drag and drop) to copy the BPAV. I'm sure he gets scores of stories of masters lost forever.

Don't be a statistic. You can claim you've never had a problem and that will be absolutely true until the day you lose a master clips, hundreds of dollars or more on a reshoot and a client worth a few thousand dollars walks out the door forever.

Wear your seat belt, Use ClipBrowser and turn CRC on.



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Bruce Schultz
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 26, 2009 at 4:47:42 pm

Can ClipBrowser users point out a difference between using Sony ClipBrowser vs Shotput Express/Pro for EX footage - both of which utilize error checking routines?

I can point out one main difference which is that Shotput can copy to up to 3 different locations (internal and external media) simultaneously. This makes my end-of-day file transfers go up to 3X faster. If there were a compelling reason to not do this I would then be forced to spend that extra time doing one-at-a-time transfers with ClipBrowser.

Wrapping my day and heading home earlier is incentive enough to pay out a few bucks for the program.

Bruce Schultz
F900R/EX-1
LA-based IATSE 600


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Mitch Lewis
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Mar 26, 2009 at 5:22:21 pm

I would say that ShotPut is better only because you can copy to multiple locations. But, the one advantage to Clip Broswer is that it's free! :)

Sony EX3, Letus Ultimate, Nikon lenses, Sachtler tripod
20 years as a videographer/editor - HD and 35mm adaptor newbie
Experienced with Apple products, Final Cut Studio, Adobe Creative Suite, MOTU Digital Performer, Flip4Mac, etc...


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David McGuire
Clip Browser and Log and Capture file loss SxS in a Mac
on Mar 26, 2009 at 9:18:50 pm

Im a new uesr and see the problems of lost data. Ive been sucessfully transfering from my cards to my Macbook pro using Clipbrowser with one exception. I think in that case I just tried to copy the whole file using the browser and lost the Mp4.

Yesterday I tried to transfer using the Log and Transfer XDCAm application in FCP. Nothing transfered and now the clips are no longer visible on the card either- although the card is still nearly full. Ive tried to reopen in clipbrowser but there is nothing showing on the card. I hit copy all in Clip browser and it prompts me to copy to the folder but when I hit OK nothing transfers. I looked at teh card on teh camera and it doesnt show me any video clips. This is an interview I would really like to avoid the embarrassement of a re shoot.
Most important is the audio.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

David McGuire
Seastewards.org
Media for a Healthy Ocean


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Mitch Lewis
Re: Clip Browser and Log and Capture file loss SxS in a Mac
on Mar 26, 2009 at 10:42:56 pm

Have you tried putting the card back in the camera? I've "heard" that it will come up with an error message asking you to RESTORE (or another word I can't remember for sure). You might try that. Otherwise, I have no idea. Maybe I'm being to AR but that's why I always:

1) Use Clip Broswer to transfer clips
2) Use the camera to format the SxS cards after each use.

Sony EX3, Letus Ultimate, Nikon lenses, Sachtler tripod
20 years as a videographer/editor - HD and 35mm adaptor newbie
Experienced with Apple products, Final Cut Studio, Adobe Creative Suite, MOTU Digital Performer, Flip4Mac, etc...


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David McGuire
Re: Clip Browser and Log and Capture file loss SxS in a Mac
on Mar 27, 2009 at 5:10:54 am

Hi Mitch

I did try putting it back into the camera- and it there are no clips, no media but also the card is neartly full. There is something on there. Fotunately I used a second tape cam and can retake the interview. A lesson- but could have been worse. I was almost suspecting a card problem.

David

David McGuire
Seastewards.org
Media for a Healthy Ocean


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Mitch Lewis
Re: Clip Browser and Log and Capture file loss SxS in a Mac
on Mar 27, 2009 at 1:26:34 pm

This won't help you now but........do you format the card to erase it? Or do you just delete all clips?

Sony EX3, Letus Ultimate, Nikon lenses, Sachtler tripod
20 years as a videographer/editor - HD and 35mm adaptor newbie
Experienced with Apple products, Final Cut Studio, Adobe Creative Suite, MOTU Digital Performer, Flip4Mac, etc...


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David McGuire
Re: Clip Browser and Log and Capture file loss SxS in a Mac
on Mar 27, 2009 at 4:38:57 pm

I just deleted all clips- maybe that is why the cards look empty but they still have content!

You suggest I should reformat the card in the camera? Ill check that out. Ill be spending a lot of time this weekend on the whole shooting and workflow.

thank you

David McGuire
Seastewards.org
Media for a Healthy Ocean


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Mitch Lewis
Re: Clip Browser and Log and Capture file loss SxS in a Mac
on Mar 27, 2009 at 4:49:52 pm

I haven't done expensive testing with this, but I know that with digital still cameras, if you take pictures and then delete them individually, then take more pictures, then delete them individually, etc....over time the card will get corrupted. This is a common problem with digital still photography. I'm assuming that it could become a problem with SxS cards as well. But I don't know that for sure. I'm just trying to take every reasonable precaution possible to prevent loss of footage. So after I'm done archiving the footage (transferring to a hard drive), I format the card in the camera.

Sony EX3, Letus Ultimate, Nikon lenses, Sachtler tripod
20 years as a videographer/editor - HD and 35mm adaptor newbie
Experienced with Apple products, Final Cut Studio, Adobe Creative Suite, MOTU Digital Performer, Flip4Mac, etc...


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Craig Seeman
Re: Clip Browser and Log and Capture file loss SxS in a Mac
on Mar 27, 2009 at 5:01:00 pm

There's human error risk if you're reformatting the card during the shoot. If you're not in record you can accidentally reformat the card you haven't dumped yet.

I've had no problem deleting all clips in ClipBrowser. I can actually see that I'm select the correct clips to delete.

Reformatting the card is not a bad idea but you should do it before the shoot IMHO.





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Mitch Lewis
Re: Clip Browser and Log and Capture file loss SxS in a Mac
on Mar 27, 2009 at 5:04:21 pm

Honestly, I tend to agree with Craig on this. I've been thinking about changing my workflow to what he describes. But I will still format the cards when ever it's convenient. (every-other shoot)

Sony EX3, Letus Ultimate, Nikon lenses, Sachtler tripod
20 years as a videographer/editor - HD and 35mm adaptor newbie
Experienced with Apple products, Final Cut Studio, Adobe Creative Suite, MOTU Digital Performer, Flip4Mac, etc...


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caleb crosby
Re: How to record, download then delete files on SxS in a Mac
on Apr 1, 2009 at 3:54:41 am

Thanks Mitch and Craig,

I appreciate your posts.
Looks like an immediate change in my workflow.

Caleb Crosby




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Bob Cole
Better than Sony's advice or am I misreading Sony?
on Jun 6, 2009 at 5:11:44 am

Glad I read in this thread about using Clip Browser to do the initial field transfer from SxS card to MacBook. Sony's "Quick Start Guide" for "Log and Transfer with Final Cut Pro PDZK-LT1" (page 6) suggests archiving this way:

======(Direct quotation below=========
1. In Finder, create a new folder that will contain the contents of one SxS card.
2. Insert the SxS card in an ExpressCard slot or connect your device with a USB cable.
3. Drag the BPAV folder from the SxS card into the folder you created in step 1.
======(end of quotation)===============

No mention of Clip Browser, CRC, etc. Interesting, huh?

Great posts. Thanks.

Bob C


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Jay Levi
Re: Better than Sony's advice or am I misreading Sony?
on Apr 28, 2012 at 7:15:43 pm

Can so
Eone explain how to format the sxs or erase all files on the cards on location with the camera, i only have my ipad with me so I can't use the software to fiddle with the files, the menu seems to oly allow you. To erase one cl ip at a time

Ex1


Been a while since this thread was posted so hope its ok to ask since i cant find the simple answer and i am in the uk and have not used this cam for a while


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Bob Cole
Re: Better than Sony's advice or am I misreading Sony?
on Apr 28, 2012 at 7:59:34 pm

Turn the camera on (either Camera or Media).

Go to the menu, navigate along the left side to the very bottom option: "Other"

Click to the right, navigate down to where it says "Format Media"

Click and go to the card you want to reformat, click on it, confirm a couple times and the card should be reformatted. You will lose all material on the card.

Good luck.

Bob C


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Jay Levi
Re: Better than Sony's advice or am I misreading Sony?
on Apr 28, 2012 at 8:10:45 pm

so your saying its in the camera menu instead of the playback

ill try this tomorrow, the guys took it back to their place

THANKS


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Bob Cole
Re: Better than Sony's advice or am I misreading Sony?
on Apr 28, 2012 at 9:04:16 pm

[Jay Levi] "so your saying its in the camera menu instead of the playback"

No. Either menu. But I'm using an EX1R so it may be slightly different.


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John Corbett
Re: Better than Sony's advice or am I misreading Sony?
on May 9, 2012 at 4:44:51 am

This is fantastic workflow advice. If someone has ClipBrowser installed and is pulling clips from an external SxS reader, is the SxS driver also required? Or is that only needed if you're pulling the clips directly off the camera? Thanks in advance for any advice!


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Don Greening
Re: Better than Sony's advice or am I misreading Sony?
on May 9, 2012 at 5:03:41 am

The workflow is slightly different depending on what platform you're using, which you didn't mention.

Since I only know the Mac workflow:

You don't need any driver if you're pulling clips directly from the camera via the USB port. Your camera's card icons will show up on the desktop like any other attached device or volume. The SxS driver exists so that the naked SxS card is recognized as an attached device. For example, a Macbook Pro with a built in Express 34 slot needs the SxS driver to "see" the card. I'm not sure about an external SxS card reader attached via USB. If you're in doubt just try it without the driver. If the reader doesn't show up on the desktop then install the free SxS driver from Sony.

- Don

Don Greening
A Vancouver Video Production Company
Reeltime Videoworks
http://www.reeltimevideoworks.com


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