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EX-1 like F350?

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Mike Allen
EX-1 like F350?
on Feb 11, 2009 at 11:10:10 pm

I have a Sony XDCAM HD F350 and often transfer files over firewire in FAM mode. Can this be done with the EX-1 or will I need a card reader to make it work. Also, I know the camera has SDI but does it also have HD component out? A friend is going to purchase this camera and I will not have a lot of time to test the card workflow before the first shoot and that is why I am asking.

Mike


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Noah Kadner
Re: EX-1 like F350?
on Feb 11, 2009 at 11:14:21 pm

It's just an express card reader- those are like $50 at any Best Buy...

Noah

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http://www.callboxlive.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 like F350?
on Feb 12, 2009 at 12:11:19 am

You can transfer files from the camera via USB. Firewire is only HDV video.



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Michael Slowe
Re: EX-1 like F350?
on Feb 12, 2009 at 1:19:56 pm

Yes,the EX1 does have HD Component out in addition to SDI.

Michael Slowe


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Curt Pair
Re: EX-1 like F350?
on Mar 5, 2009 at 4:10:38 am

I have both of these same cameras... I own an HD waveform/vector scope (Leader 5330). Believe it or not, it's fairly simple to MATCH both of these cameras!

I've "saved" looks for these two, and when we shoot with them, there's never any post color correction.

Curt Pair
Picture This Productions
Sony ICE Team
F900/F350/700/EX1/EX3/D790/D600
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ


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Brett Howe
Re: EX-1 like F350?
on Mar 19, 2009 at 4:39:54 am

Hi Curt

I stumbled accross this older post, and looking at your kit, you are the man I need to talk to.

My production company is based in Australia, and we doo alot of shooting OS, hence smaller camera's are appealing when you're lugging them around the globe.

We have been asked to deliver in HD, but spec wise, have been told, it must be accepted by majority of HD broadcasters.

We are looking at X3's. I know the pictures are great at 35bits, and the XDCAM EX format is superior in resolution to the anamorphic XDCAM HD, but will material shot on these cams be accepted by HD broadcasters?

Thanks in advance.

Brett



Brett Howe
Creative Director / Producer
Brave Vision Pty Ltd


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Curt Pair
Re: EX-1 like F350?
on Mar 19, 2009 at 6:55:39 am

Brett,

I think you need to make certain that you are comparing apples to apples in your assessment of XD Cam EX and XD Cam HD. Now days there are MULTIPLE flavors of XD Cam HD (or what it referred to as "optical"). There are full frame, 50Mbps and 35Mbps HD models.

I think that you should remember too that GLASS makes the difference! Keep in mind that the F900 CineAlta HD Cam camcorders have shot at the 1440 X 1080 frame size for years! It is an industry staple! The decks "output" that 1440 image out to 1920.

I often place my F350, Optical Disc footage STRAIGHT into 1920 timelines, even though shot at 1440, and MOST of my clients can't tell the difference... even when MIXING with F900 footage!

That being said, the stock lens' on the EX line are very nice. However, with the EX3 you have the ability to increase your range.

Some of your question must be answered by you and your clients. HOW do they want delivery of the footage? That's the most important question. Many of today's cameras are "acquisition" based. This is CERTAINLY true with the EX line. You wouldn't want to "archive" an SxS card. It's far too costly to do so. If you shot XD Cam Optical, then certainly that is an acquisition format, storage format and archival format.

If you choose to shoot with an EX1, you MUST decide what you are going to do with the footage! Save on a hard drive, Blue Ray DVD, XD Cam optical disc, etc.

So what is the "Accepted" material shot by broadcasters? I think that depends on the area of the globe where it will be broadcast. For the MOST PART, in America, HD is "now" 1080 x 1920 for nearly ALL HD BROADCASTS. A very few select broadcasters use 720 x 1280 (ABC network and Fox), but the majority prefer the larger frame size. This is why "another" camera manufacturer starting with a "P" and ending with a "C" have chosen to produce many of their cameras in "native, full size HD" of 1080 x 1920.

Some cameras shoot in 540 x 960! (those made by that "other" manufacturer) and upscale to the 1080 x 1920 frame size! (Do the math, the frame size is HALF of "full HD!) Some cameras shoot in 720 X 960. Some in 720 x 1280. Some in 1080 x 1440. Some in 1080 x 1920. Some even larger... I think you need to KNOW where your footage will broadcast and then you'll have your answer.

Remember this: It's ALWAYS better to OVER SAMPLE and then down scale the footage; instead of the other way around! So even if you will deliver in say 720 x 1280, the image will look MUCH BETTER if acquired in 1080 x 1920 and then down scaled.

Will the footage "match" or look as good as others? ABSOLUTELY! Is this footage accepted by MY clients? ABSOLUTELY! I'll be honest... most of my clients want a single medium delivered to them... therefore, I TRANS CODE the EX material to optical disc. They mandate this. I could just as easily deliver on an HDD. They choose not to "go that route..."

I think that with their physical size and abilities, the EX3's will do wonders for your shoots. I don't think you'll have any trouble with compatibility or "acceptance" once you figure out your delivery methods.

Curt Pair
Picture This Productions
Sony ICE Team
F900/F350/700/EX1/EX3/D790/D600
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 like F350?
on Mar 19, 2009 at 1:26:27 pm

[Curt Pair] "You wouldn't want to "archive" an SxS card. It's far too costly to do so. If you shot XD Cam Optical, then certainly that is an acquisition format, storage format and archival format. "

But you can certainly archive the SDHC card which you can now use in the EX series 16GB for about $25 puts it in similar price range of XDCAM disc. Those SDHC cards take up much less shelf space in the library room of the facility too.

I believe the EX has Silver status at the Discovery channel as far as use for example.



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Curt Pair
Re: EX-1 like F350?
on May 11, 2009 at 11:30:37 pm

Craig is correct, if you have the latest firmware in the EX1 (the EX3's don't need it!) you CAN indeed record to the SDHC media. I recently UPGRADED the firmware myself... I know that MANY on this forum say it can't be done by the owner, but it can indeed be done, if you find the software on the web! It's no harder than flashing a bios of a motherboard, or drive!

I'm a "Sony ICE Team" member, and I wasn't able to secure the firmware upgrade from them... (to do it myself) however, MANY places on the net have it, and it's relatively easy to find.

IF YOU ARE NOT COMPUTER SAVVY, I would not recommend trying this yourself! Send it to a Sony Service Center.

I have upgraded 6 of these cameras myself and have had no problems! the first one WAS scary! But it's quite simple. I use all of the cameras quite often, and couldn't wait to have them upgraded... I didn't want to do it in stages either... so I just did it myself.

That being said... the NEW cards from HOODMAN USA, ROCK! I've had NO PROBLEMS what so ever with their adapter or cards. They are fairly fast in data transfer rates, and stable as all get out! You can use a few other manufacturers cards in their adapter, but theirs are stable and "guaranteed" to work! Give them a try.

If you do, then Craig is correct, it's NOT that expensive to use them once and then store them! "Cost of doing business" applies now. One draw back: Over/under cranking can't be done with the SDHC cards! (up to 40fps with the Hoodman's have been tested and approved!) So if you don't need that feature, save some money and use the Hoodman cards! You'll be glad you did!

Curt

Curt Pair
Picture This Productions
Sony ICE Team
F900/F800/F350/PDW700/EX1/EX3/D790/D600
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX-1 like F350?
on May 12, 2009 at 12:03:02 am

[Curt Pair] "I know that MANY on this forum say it can't be done by the owner, but it can indeed be done"

It certainly can be as you note if the user can find the firmware.

I'd note that Sony doesn't even allow local authorized service centers to do it. I think the Sony's motive is not simply service related.

[Curt Pair] "That being said... the NEW cards from HOODMAN USA, ROCK! I've had NO PROBLEMS what so ever with their adapter or cards."

The adaptors come from MxM (as noted on the MxM site) and they get the adaptors from the same manufacturer as MxR. They're all the same adaptor.

Hoodman's SDHC are more expensive than Sandisk and Transcend SDHC but these days people are having problems with Sandisk.




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Curt Pair
Re: EX-1 like F350?
on May 12, 2009 at 12:32:20 am

Craig is correct again! I'll be honest... I spent about 5 minutes looking for the update, and found about 8 links to it! One was on another forum... I know some of those guys as they are "Sony ICE Team" members too, so I thought to be a reputable place to find and use it... it worked great.

You are correct... Sony doesn't let authorized Dealers update the camera either.... HOWEVER, I was told a "minimum of two weeks and as long as a five week turn around time..."

When I found out that it takes about 20 minutes per camera to perform... and Sony wanted $100 per unit, AND I could be out of EX cameras for a month... I chose to go "another route..."

I'm certainly by NO MEANS suggesting that EVERYONE do this! Warranty issues, comfort level, etc. come into play here... each owner has to make that decision for themselves.

I am saying there are alternative and proven methods if you wish to do it yourself. I KNOW an individual who did this them self, then had a "head phone jack" issue... Sony didn't realize the update hadn't been done by their own company... they covered the repair under warranty!

That may NOT happen in every circumstance! User/Updater be warned!

Curt Pair
Picture This Productions
Sony ICE Team
F900/F800/F350/PDW700/EX1/EX3/D790/D600
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ


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Michael Palmer
Re: EX-1 like F350?
on May 12, 2009 at 12:25:27 am

"I know that MANY on this forum say it can't be done by the owner,"

Curt, I certainly haven't read Many here saying this, in fact I posted the same advice you just did and I even upgraded my EX1 myself too. My biggest issue was finding a reliable PC to use. I only have Mac's and I finally found a friend with a good PC and yes it was a strange process having to do it with two different files and not knowing with the first took or not.
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/142/863218

I also spoke to Lou Schmidt (Hoodman owner) during NAB and he did say these SDHC cards he is selling are the MLC flash design that are much cheaper to produce and didn't disclose the manufacturer. The CF cards he sells are the SLC design.

http://www.supertalent.com/datasheets/SLC_vs_MLC%20whitepaper.pdf

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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