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Jay Curlee
EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 26, 2009 at 6:45:13 pm

I just got back from shooting a music cruise with my new EX-1. I shot about 30 hours of footage. The work flow was to fill up the two on board cards, then race back to the room and import the clips to a FCP project via usb to my macbook. At the end of the day I would offload those clips to portable USB drives.
This is a clunky process (of course) made doubly bad by the fact that I couldn't use my new MxR cards because of old firmware. I was stuck with just one 16 and one 8G SxS cards.

Upon returning home I have found two clips (so far) that cannot be copied to SATA drives because of error code-36. I can open these files from the portable USB drive in QT Pro. Am I hosed on those clips?

Best,

Jay

Jay Curlee

JC Communications
Makers of Rocking the Boat: A Musical Conversation and Journey
http://www.rockingtheboatmovie.com


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Michael Palmer
Re: EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 26, 2009 at 7:06:03 pm

Sounds like you may not have saved the original BPAV folders to individual parent folders. How did you "import the clips to a FCP project "?

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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Jay Curlee
Re: EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 26, 2009 at 7:23:34 pm

I used xdcam transfer. From FCP: File-import-sony xdcam.

So far I have been able to copy about 200 clips. 2 have come up with the -36 error. I have played one of these files with quicktime pro (from the usb drive without incident). I suspect that one of the two problem files was an .smi

Jay




Jay Curlee

JC Communications
Makers of Rocking the Boat: A Musical Conversation and Journey
http://www.rockingtheboatmovie.com


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cowcowcowcowcow
Michael Palmer
Re: EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 26, 2009 at 7:48:34 pm

OK using the XD Cam Transfer utility doesn't really copy the files, it re-wraps them creating Quicktime files to use in Final Cut. SMI file extensions are larger than 4 gigs and/or could be spanned over 2 cards.
Do you have the original BPAV folders for these clips you are having issues with?

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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Jay Curlee
Re: EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 26, 2009 at 8:02:24 pm

I do not have the BPAVs.

Jay Curlee

JC Communications
Makers of Rocking the Boat: A Musical Conversation and Journey
http://www.rockingtheboatmovie.com


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Michael Palmer
Re: EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 26, 2009 at 8:17:34 pm

Are these clips spanned over 2 BPAV folders?

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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Jay Curlee
Re: EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 26, 2009 at 8:28:22 pm

It is hard to know but I doubt it. The clips that have error-36 are not contiguous. One of them is a 4.33 gb file, though. I have some hope because the files appear to play without problem in QT. I just can't copy them. Anyhow, I am about 5 minutes away from completing the copying of all the rest of the files...all 448 of them.

Jay



Jay Curlee

JC Communications
Makers of Rocking the Boat: A Musical Conversation and Journey
http://www.rockingtheboatmovie.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 26, 2009 at 8:50:01 pm

I apologize if it offends some but I will repeat like a broken record.

  • Copy using ClipBrowser with CRC on.
  • BackUp BPAV folder.


These are your camera masters.

-36 error is an I/O error.
Try repairing permissions on source and destination drives.
Make sure there's 20% free space on both source and destination drives.



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Jay Curlee
Re: EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 26, 2009 at 9:08:16 pm

No offense taken.

The dynamics of this shoot and lack of experience of the operator are to blame. Perhaps I am fortunate that I have 469 of the 472 clips as QT movies. This was the second time out with the camera and the other shoot did not have these relentless offloading demands. It sure would have been better to have a macbook pro, too.

I have the BPAVs for the last session of 40.

Some lessons are learned the hard way.

Jay

Jay Curlee

JC Communications
Makers of Rocking the Boat: A Musical Conversation and Journey
http://www.rockingtheboatmovie.com


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Michael Palmer
Re: EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 26, 2009 at 9:32:06 pm

Jay
Find my email address on my profile and send me a contact number. I'd be happy to help you offline.



Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 26, 2009 at 9:34:44 pm

You mentioned Quicktime can play the clips that otherwise give you an error.
Can Final Cut Pro do likewise?
You could try opening them in FCP and placing them in timeline with matching settings and then export from FCP to a new location.



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Jay Curlee
Re: EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 26, 2009 at 9:57:17 pm

Actually upon closer inspection there is a freeze in the qt files but playback continues if I move down the time progress line. I was thinking along your lines too about fcp export and will try exporting.

Fortunately the 3 of the 4 files in question are for use mostly in montage and the problematic areas are dispensable. The more important file is a 20 minute 4+gb clip. I have not viewed it all the way through but it does play on spot check.

Fortunately the sound was recorded to a separate device (a very cool Zoom H4). If the export trick works, most of my fat will be out of the fire.

BTW, in checking and double checking all of my files, I discovered 11 clips that did NOT get imported that are still on the SxS cards.

My head is still spinning from this shoot.

Jay Curlee

JC Communications
Makers of Rocking the Boat: A Musical Conversation and Journey
http://www.rockingtheboatmovie.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 27, 2009 at 3:01:04 am

[Jay Curlee] "BTW, in checking and double checking all of my files, I discovered 11 clips that did NOT get imported that are still on the SxS cards. "

I'd bet those were split clips. Those are clips that crossed cards. XDCAM Transfer will see them as incomplete and won't import them unless you select it as a subclip. In order for XDCAM Transfer to import those clips all parts of the file must be available. This is another reason to use ClipBrowser. I guess you're learning this the hard way.

One should really test workflow before doing a paying gig. Sorry for 20/20 hindsight but I'm writing this for the benefit of others who might be reading the trials and tribulations.


[Jay Curlee] "Actually upon closer inspection there is a freeze in the qt files but playback continues if I move down the time progress line. I was thinking along your lines too about fcp export and will try exporting. "

The -36 error may be related to the media so the freeze just might related to the media and not the file. Try the FCP trick. In addition try just copying those files generating the error one at a time to a different hard drive.





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Jay Curlee
Re: EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 27, 2009 at 3:17:26 am

It was 3am when I did my last transfers, so the last 11 clips were probably missed when I quit too early. At least they are on the card. Re the SMI clips, Transfer handles them nicely if you have both cards up in the window. They are nicely linked now. An old friend who's been in the business 40 years and who is an early EX-1 adopter, recommended I go the Transfer and not the Browser route. I should have saved the BPAV folders in any case. I have heard that Browser is better for PC users than Mac guys. I am not qualified to argue that.

The shooting plan was made non functional because of the surprise news that my firmware would not support the MxR cards. I bought a new camera with old firmware 4 weeks ago.

Lots of stress happens when you go from a show to the room to download and race back to the stage for the next show. A new Macbook Pro or being able to use my MxR cards would have saved me lots of angst.

This whole gig was a trade deal and I delivered 1000% of their expectations.., even with the 4 apparently corrupted files. 4 clips out of 472 isn't as bad as it could have been.

Thanks for your suggestions and interest.

Jay






Jay Curlee

JC Communications
Makers of Rocking the Boat: A Musical Conversation and Journey
http://www.rockingtheboatmovie.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 27, 2009 at 4:06:52 am

[Jay Curlee] "At least they are on the card."

Good news indeed.

[Jay Curlee] "An old friend who's been in the business 40 years and who is an early EX-1 adopter, recommended I go the Transfer and not the Browser route."

Reminds me of those guys who'd recommend spinning a reel to the end rather than rewinding to head back when when 1" and 2" machines had slow rewind times.

I can see a motive for skipping BPAV but there'd have to be extreme motive such as doing a VNR or other crazy tight deadline and you just have to take a risk and skip the BPAV copy. I can't see any other circumstance though.

[Jay Curlee] "I should have saved the BPAV folders in any case. I have heard that Browser is better for PC users than Mac guys."

Those .mov files the XDCAM Transfer wraps to are specific to Final Cut Pro (baring a third party plugin others would have to purchase). There are certainly people using Macs with other NLEs such as Avid, Premier Pro, Media 100 just to name a few.

From those BPAV some NLEs can use the MP4, others can use the MXF that ClipBrowser can create. Some will use the BPAV/MP4 to go to another codec. Those BPAV are your camera masters. They are your safety net. Without which, if you fall, it can be fatal. Some people don't like the time it takes to set up the net. Some people don't like wearing seat belts either. The one time in your life you need them you're glad you buckled up though. You've just experienced one of those times. Maybe it's just a non fatal fender bender but the scratches you're getting are certainly a lessoned learned.

Think of how happy you are that you have those 11 clips still on the card. Think of how much happier you'd be if you also had the source clips for the mov files giving you the error.

Do try to do the FCP save or copy individual to another hard drive and see if they can be rescued though.




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Michael Palmer
Re: EX file problems (error code-36)
on Jan 27, 2009 at 4:10:37 am

Jay,
Great speaking to you today.
I hope you had some success exporting in QT.

I don't recommend this extremely fast pace workflow, and I hope everyone reading this can take advantage of low cost media solutions (SDHC/MxR) to avoid deleting their original files before the conversion files actually are verified.

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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Jay Curlee
Re: EX file problems (error code-36) Post Script
on Jan 27, 2009 at 7:05:05 pm

The postscript to my file problems is that the troubled files had hits whereby they would cut to black for a second or more and then rebuild. I cut out the hits and exported the files to QT movies from FCP. This saved most of the footage.

Whether these hits were camera hits or drive hits is the $64K question. FWIW, all the hits happened on files saved to a particular drive on a particular data dump. That would be a clue.

Thanks for the help, guys.

Jay

Jay Curlee

JC Communications
Makers of Rocking the Boat: A Musical Conversation and Journey
http://www.rockingtheboatmovie.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX file problems (error code-36) Post Script
on Jan 27, 2009 at 7:57:54 pm

From my experience error -36 (i/o error) often has to do with the drive. Using CRC might have alerted you to the fact the file on the drive wasn't matching the source file assuming the issue was present on the hard drive at the time the file was being copied.

This opens the other door that any media has some risk involved whether tape, optical disk, hard drive, etc. and the best bet on beating the odds is some form of redundancy.

The one thing CRC buys you is that you know your initial copy is good or are alerted to the failure of the copy immediately and can then seek out another media to copy it to.

I don't know of any case where such hits would happen in camera on the EX unless you had bad SxS cards which I haven't heard of yet. Given what I've seen the EX put through I can't imagine the buffer or write to media being scrambled in any way. In fact it's much more reliable than a rotating head across a piece of tape.



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