FORUMS: list search recent posts

EX-3 setting recommendation

COW Forums : Sony XDCAM - EX & Related

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Ronnie Martin
EX-3 setting recommendation
on Jan 11, 2009 at 1:59:20 am

Most of my shooting with the EX-3 is automobile dirt racing. Most of the time it is at night. The lighting varies as the cars go around the track. Some of the tracks have dark spots and light spots. The speed of the cars many times is way over 100 MPH. (Super Late models are at over 120 MPH)
My B roll camera is a Zu1 and shoots HDV 1440X 1080i. This camera is mostly used for interviews and pre race activities The end product is SD DVD. The ZU1 is also my back up camera if the EX were to have a problem. The editing platform is Edius 5.01

What settings would you recommend
shutter speed?
interlaced 60i or progressive 30p? SP or HQ mode?
auto iris or manual? (keeping in mind the speed of the cars and the ever changing lighting conditions)
white balance manual or auto?

What I have been shooting is the following
Shutter speed 1/60
interlaced 60i 1440X1080i SP mode
auto iris
manual white balance

Thanks
Ronnie Martin
http://www.dirtracingvideo.com


Return to posts index

Don Greening
Re: EX-3 setting recommendation
on Jan 11, 2009 at 5:54:30 pm

Your Z1U only shoots interlaced so I would set the EX to match that. You're looking for continuity here to keep the look of both cameras similar. I would use the HQ setting on the EX because it's less likely to cause picture breakup issues recording fast scene changes (like speeding cars). The SP mode is essentially HDV. Modern day editors like your Edius program are very adept at conforming one codec to match another.

I would use manual iris for sure because you don't want the picture to continually cycle from darker to lighter as you follow vehicles in and out of the unlit areas of the track. That would be extremely distracting for the the viewer. Set your exposure for the lit areas and let the shadows fall where they may.

[Ronnie Martin] "white balance manual or auto?"

With a wide shot the colour temperature should remain fairly constant since there's probably only one type of track lighting anyway. You can set the white balance manually if you want but I would suspect that auto-tracing white balance would work pretty well in this situation.

Shutter speed is always a compromise between motion blur at the lower settings and a stroby looking picture at the other end. In your case you also have to think about having enough light because higher shutter speeds reduce the amount of light hitting the imagers. No one can give you an exact setting for your particular situation.


- Don



Return to posts index

Andrew Stone
Re: EX-3 setting recommendation
on Jan 12, 2009 at 4:13:48 am

On a strictly theoretical level, I would lean towards SP 1080/60i on the EX3 as this is closest to the Z1U but and this is a big but since you are doing potentially fast moving stuff to experiment with shooting in HQ 1080/60i on the EX3. You will probably get fewer artifacts and they still could match up quite well. The key is 1080/60i. The big question is whether to use HP or SP mode.



Return to posts index


Steve Wargo
Re: EX-3 setting recommendation
on Jan 12, 2009 at 5:45:13 am

This is the very thing that I did when I started my production company in 1982 and we shot on VHS, moving up to S-VHS in '87 or so.

I would start with SP and look for problems. If you don't really have any, you'll get more record time. The racers will not even see an occasional glitch. They wouldn't see it if you stopped the video and showed it to them.

Lighting at a track can be tough. Dirt tracks do not have a reputation for even lighting. You want manual iris (auto iris is bad, bad, bad) and set it so that you are at the top of your exposure when the cars are under the brightest light. While the white cars might seem a bit hot, you'll still have a picture in the darker areas.

Talk to the track owner about spending a couple hundred grand on evening out the lighting. He'll probably decline because the beer drinking crowd at dirt tracks don't care. He's right. I'm not trying to slam the crowd. I was a professional dirt track racer from '76 till '85 and, trust me, as long as we could see the car numbers, we were very happy. If it was in focus, we were in heaven.

Back then, we had tube cameras and the color was never right. Today's cameras have got to be fantastic compared to those things and I envy your product.

Where are you located anyway?





Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: EX-3 setting recommendation
on Jan 12, 2009 at 11:33:04 am

[Steve ] " I was a professional dirt track racer from '76 till '85"
And how for a pro racer 25 Mbps is enough?
Always more and more power!! :-)
I think that if the 25 Mbps of my EX-1 disappear I won't miss it at all.
I haven't used a single time. i do not mean that is not useful. if I should record a long conference or so is an option.
Record 25 only if you have no memory for 35 recording.
Almost 25% more of data rate makes a huge difference.
Your pictures that will have a lot of lights/shadows will be much easier to CC.
There are some Picture Profiles designed to work in low-light situation.
I found one that works really well although I haven' tried in many different situations.
You can find it in: http://www.basspig.com
BTW would be interesting if we start to share some information about Picture Profiles.
I have tried few of the recepies that is possible to find in Internet.
Some of them gives a very interesting picture but they let no much room for a later CC.
I prefer to get the look I want in post. Most of the time I shoot I don't know how I go to use the pictures.
I want something that let me use get the best of the camera letting me freedom to treat the image.
And a happy new year for all of you my friends.
Cheers,
rafael


http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

Ronnie Martin
Re: EX-3 setting recommendation
on Jan 12, 2009 at 4:16:12 pm

Talk to the track owner about spending a couple hundred grand on evening out the lighting. He'll probably decline because the beer drinking crowd at dirt tracks don't care.

Thanks guys for all your suggestions. I have been shooting dirt racing video for the past 4 years or so and progressed from a PD170, Zu1, EX-1 and now finally the EX-3. I know you don't mean to trash the dirt racing crown Steve, but obviously you have not been to the same tracks I have been going to lately. In the main grandstand no alcoholic beverages are allowed. Many tracks have a section for this on the back straight a way. The cars are very sophisticated in construction and design. I guess the best way to describe it is to go to this link on You Tube.







(sorry about the poor quality it actually looked pretty good until You Tube re encoded it.)

It is more like mini NASCAR these days. I am sure you can find some of the tracks that you mention but they are the exception not the rule.

Many of the current NASCAR drivers drive dirt during and in the off season to keep their reflexes up to par. Also many of them have bought interest in the larger tracks across the country. The top class is the Super Late Models and they move very fast and the action is really hard to capture with just one camera. Our results last year with the EX-1 were much improved over the Zu1 even though our end result is a SD DVD.

The only complaint that I have had with the EX and the ZU1 is when I down convert to SD DVD for authoring that I get artifacts on horizontal and vertical components of the image. This is especially evident when panning and zooming. Unfortunately with the cars traveling at over 120MPH on 1/4 or 3/8 mile track you are constantly moving to keep up with the action. Most all of my shooting is hand held. I found that a tripod or mini pod did not allow any up and down movement that is needed as the cars approach and go buy. This weekend I used a modified shoulder brace that I bought for the EX-1 and aside from a sore shoulder it was much easier to handle than the EX-1 just not as much pressure on my wrist.

Sorry to ramble on so….. I have learned so very much from all of you on the Cow forums. Please don’t be offended by my dumb stupid questions from time to time.

Keep up the good work….. and keep those suggestions and picture profiles coming. Best of luck with your video efforts in the New Year.

Ronnie Martin
http://www.dirtracingvideo.com








Ronnie Martin
Kato Video Productions


Return to posts index


Steve Wargo
Re: EX-3 setting recommendation
on Jan 12, 2009 at 9:40:44 pm

Thanks for the clip. I only see two dark spots and that's between 1&2 and between 3&4. The rest looks pretty even. As for the EX-3, I can see where you may need a long lens from that vantage point. We shot all of our later stuff on stix with proper lens controls. I worked with ESPN for 8 years shooting off-road races. That meant a 30 puond camera on the shoulder for 8 hours or more with very few breaks. I can't give you much sympathy on holding the EX on your shoulder.

As for the beer infested rednecks, that was meant in jest, of course. I'll look around for the dirt track commercial spot we did and see if I can't post that.

Your footage looked very good, by the way. As far as bit rate, I would still test the 25mb against the 35. If it works, why not use it? When your shooting an event, it would be tough to lose something because you were a minute short on record time.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: EX-3 setting recommendation
on Jan 12, 2009 at 9:58:00 pm

[Steve Wargo] "When your shooting an event, it would be tough to lose something because you were a minute short on record time. "
But with MxR and SDHC 32GB you can pack the camera with 4 hours of record time at 35mbps. At $185 (compared to $1425 for 32GB SxS) you can bring 4 cards for a full 8 hours of recording in addition to loosing the need for laptop and assistant to offload. With high motion subject I'd imagine that 35mbps will hold up where 25mbps might break.





Return to posts index

Philip Imbrenda
Re: EX-3 setting recommendation
on Jan 14, 2009 at 1:00:50 pm

We have EX1 & Ex3 with 60 gig hard drives. The drive does not allow over or under cranking, the SXS are costly Where can you buy a MXR?
Thank you
Philip
Tv One

Tv One Productions


Return to posts index


Don Greening
Re: EX-3 setting recommendation
on Jan 14, 2009 at 6:42:59 pm

[Philip Imbrenda] "Where can you buy a MXR?"

Right here:

http://e-films.com.au/

Keep in mind that the MxR Express Card Reader with the Sandisk cards cannot record overcranked footage either.

- Don



Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
On Camera Preview
on Jan 15, 2009 at 10:01:31 am

Hi Don,
But, it is possible the Preview on camera?
I've read that they where some problems.
If is no possible to check what have been recorded, this is a real shortcoming.
However I've ordered already 6 adaptors.
More difficult may be to get good Flash cards. I live in copy-land.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

Michael Palmer
Re: On Camera Preview
on Jan 15, 2009 at 4:46:03 pm

Rafael,
I'm not sure this answers your preview question but I can review the last clip from the MxR/SDHC and also playback in Media mode any clip. I have been using the Transcend 16 gig Class 6 SDHC cards and I feel I can trust this combo with the MxR. Newegg has amazing prices for the Transcend cards right now, so perhaps you can order online to avoid the counterfeits.

Micheal


Return to posts index


Don Greening
Re: On Camera Preview
on Jan 15, 2009 at 6:45:50 pm

Hi Raf,

I think you're referring to something that happened to Craig Seeman the other day. It wasn't a problem with the MxR adapter and card but instead was the fact that his new EX firmware upgrade was not done correctly. He ended up taking the camera back to Sony and they re-did the firmware. Once that was done he had no problems reviewing last clip in camera mode and was able to play back all clips in media mode.

I'm the wrong person to ask about the MxR adapter anyway because I haven't taken the plunge yet. I'm still undecided and am waiting to see if Sony drops the prices of their own cards.

- Don


Return to posts index

Ronnie Martin
Re: EX-3 setting recommendation
on Jan 12, 2009 at 11:15:49 pm

The Magnolia track on the clip is the best lit track of all that I attend. Most of that footage was shot early in the afternoon before the sun went down. The sun is to my back and I get some nice shots there. Some of the others really are a challenge not only for me as a videographer but for the drivers as well. It all depends on the placement of the lights and my vantage point. At some of the tracks I have to shoot right into them when the cars come out of turn 4 and then on the the front straight. The EX series sure does a good job for there is no smear at all. I just wish it came with a 20x lens. One of the best vantage points that I have is at a track in South Mississippi right at the Mississippi Louisiana line. The track has several dark spots and the infield is really not lit at all. I started there with my PD170 and it was the best low light camera I have used at the dirt tracks. AT the track in South Mississippi,I am usually way up on top of the press box and it is like shooting fish in a barrel. The end result is pretty good in spite of the low light conditions.

Thanks again guys for all your help

Ronnie Martin
http://www.dirtracingvideo.com



Ronnie Martin
Kato Video Productions


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: EX-3 setting recommendation
on Jan 12, 2009 at 11:26:36 pm

The EX can rival if not surpass the PD-170. Don Greening wrote about it here at the COW. Check the articles section. Shoot 1080i60 (progressive eats light).

You can get a 1.6 lens adaptor for the EX1. You should be able to get longer lenses for EX3.



Return to posts index


Bruno Arena
Re: EX-3 setting recommendation
on Jan 23, 2009 at 2:27:10 am

I've just purchased the EX3 and the PDW-700.I would be eternally greatful if someone would be so kind as to suggest paint settings for the PP of the EX3 for outdoor, indoor interviews (here I'm looking for a warmer look) and night shooting. Moreover, since I'm still waiting for my 700 to be delivered and have not used it before, I was wondering if I should change some of the factory settings values to make the camera look better overall



Return to posts index

Ronnie Martin
Re: EX-3 setting recommendation
on Jan 23, 2009 at 3:21:00 am

I also would like to see some warmer PPs for the EX. I have the EX-3 and so far have not changed any of the settings. A lot of my shooting is at night under poor and ever changing lighting conditions.

Ronnie Martin

Ronnie Martin
Kato Video Productions


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: EX-3 setting recommendation
on Jan 23, 2009 at 8:12:50 am

Have a look here:

http://www.basspig.com

You will find few other things in google.
Try the "Raven" PP.
Rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]