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sara jones
footage Shot 720p50 instead of 720p25
on Jan 8, 2009 at 4:12:20 pm

I have filmed several pieces for web on the 'wrong' camera settings- 50 frames per sec instead of 25. I am worried! It is for a BBC website- which of course plays out at 25secs.

Any soloutions? I would love you forever.

Could it be output to tape and then reimported into Final Cut Pro with 'right' settings in any way. I am having a major panic and can't believe my stupid mistake.

Thanks,
S.J

EX3
Macbookpro
Final Cut 6



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Craig Seeman
Re: footage Shot 720p50 instead of 720p25
on Jan 8, 2009 at 6:22:07 pm

Can't the BBC do the conversion on encode for web?
Why not do this in Compressor or maybe Cinema Tools can handle it? You can also see if FCP can handle it. I can't attest as to which will give you the best results but it should be simple enough to try.
I can't imagine going out to tape and back to be anything but a headache.

Does BBC do HD broadcast as of yet? If so it would probably be eitther 720p50 or 1080i50 so they may be able to handle the conversion for web from 720p50 as a matter of course. That's a more typical broadcast shooting format than 720p25 (at least it's equivalent would be here in "the States"). Broadcast here is either 720p60 or 1080i60.




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sara jones
Re: footage Shot 720p50 instead of 720p25
on Jan 8, 2009 at 6:47:31 pm

Thanks for your advice Craig- this is a web project, and they can't deal with HD yet. I have emailed their technical department for advice. No reply yet as it is late. They will put my footage through a 'flip factory' to make it suitable for their website (as they do with all video footage). All their videos play out at 25 frames per second, so I am fearful that this will make my footage look 'wrong'.

I just tried exporting/compressing my footage as a quicktime movie at 25 frames per second and this time it looked ok...I think. I can't tell whether there is a slight 'slow shutter' kind of effect. There must be- surely?

Thanks again,
Sara



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Craig Seeman
Re: footage Shot 720p50 instead of 720p25
on Jan 8, 2009 at 9:07:57 pm

[sara jones] "They will put my footage through a 'flip factory' to make it suitable for their website (as they do with all video footage)."

Telestream FlipFactory. It take just about anything it and spit anything out. The closest thing to that on the make is . . . . Telestream Episode. If you look elsewhere on the COW you'll see my face atop that forum too. FlipFactory is more "enterprise" oriented.

[sara jones] "I just tried exporting/compressing my footage as a quicktime movie at 25 frames per second and this time it looked ok...I think."

You don't mention how you did that. Compressor would give you more control than Quicktime if you needed it (and you'll see my face atop COW's Compression Techniques too).

As I think your situation attests to, anyone dealing with the multiplicity of formats (especially so with tapeless workflow) should add codec and compression tools and training to their workflow.

For a time, as part of my compression work, I gave them feedback as they were trying to work out WMV delivery to the Mac. I think at the time they were doing something close to 16:9 with a slight crop to keep to the macroblock rule of 8 or 16 (I forget which math they were using).

It looks like they've moved to Flash. I believe the BBC actually uses an aspect ratio of 14:9, not 16:9. From what I understand 16:9 Standard Def TV sets are quite common in the UK, hence the slow move to HD there. But they need to fit the image in 4:3 as well and they feel 14:9 is the best compromise

This BBC website goes into it a bit
http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tvbranding/picturesize.shtml
and this Wiki explains the reasoning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/index.html?curid=1643227

As you can see the image is either pillar boxed in 16:9 or cropped at the edges and letter boxed for 4:3. Looking at the BBC news website, they now seem to be pillar boxing the video.

BTW one of the nice features Sony included in the EX is that you can actually display that 14:9 crop marks/safe area on the camera LCD.

If it was for possible broadcast they may have even asked for 50p so they can keep temporal resolution going from 50p to 50i. Web is progressive though so 25p makes sense.

So for those thoroughly confused by the above here's the summary:
BBC uses SD 16:9 which is 14:9 pillar box which can work in 4:3 with less letter box than 16:9
25p is what they'd need for web (web is progressive) but they'd probably want 50 if it were for broadcast.

_____
Sorry about the verbosity but It does explain 2 features found on the EX
What the 14:9 safe title area is for. Why one might be asked to shoot 25p when HD Broadcast in PAL compatible countries would probably be 50p or 50i.

Of course someone here who shoots for BBC broadcast may knock all this down but it'll be an interesting discussion for us freelance shooters using the EX.



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sara jones
Re: footage Shot 720p50 instead of 720p25
on Jan 9, 2009 at 12:21:26 am

Thanks very much Craig. This is just a brief message as I am 'on the go'- but I appreciate your help. I agree that training is needed in this area (in my case!). Will report back...

Sara




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Simon Wyndham
Re: footage Shot 720p50 instead of 720p25
on Jan 10, 2009 at 6:32:58 pm

14:9 cropping is only used for analogue terrestrial transmission. Almost all programming in the UK on the digital transmissions is broadcast 16:9 anamorphic.




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Craig Seeman
Re: footage Shot 720p50 instead of 720p25
on Jan 10, 2009 at 7:15:17 pm

[Simon Wyndham] "14:9 cropping is only used for analogue terrestrial transmission. Almost all programming in the UK on the digital transmissions is broadcast 16:9 anamorphic. "

Thanks for noting that. Simon, where do things stand with analog vs digital transmission in the UK? In the USA in a matter of weeks all TV broadcast transmission with be digital. Analog TV broadcast will be dead.





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Simon Wyndham
Re: footage Shot 720p50 instead of 720p25
on Jan 10, 2009 at 7:47:47 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Thanks for noting that. Simon, where do things stand with analog vs digital transmission in the UK? In the USA in a matter of weeks all TV broadcast transmission with be digital. Analog TV broadcast will be dead."

The digital switchover has already started in parts. I think at present that have switched off one analogue transmitter in Scotland. They are performing the transition in stages. It started in November and will finish in 2012. Although I would imagine that it would have gained so much momentum by then that the vast majority would be on digital by then. Though having said that I do not know of anyone personally who still watches analogue anyway.

Digital TV seems to have quite a high penetration here since it has been broadcasting for quite a number of years now. The picture quality is bloody awful though via the digital terrestrial transmissions. I will be fitting a Freesat dish (free to view satellite) which also contains a number of free HD channels from the BBC, Channel 4 etc.





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