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SDHC in place of SxS?

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Noah Kadner
SDHC in place of SxS?
on Sep 18, 2008 at 11:12:15 am

Has this come up in the forums already? I've read on some other forums that you can use the much cheaper SDHC memory cards in the EX1. You use the Kensington 7 in 1 Expresscard reader and high speed SDHC memory cards such as the Sandisk Extreme III 16 GB and you're all set. 8 GB of XDCAM EX recording for about $150. It will record HQ modes but no S&Q motion. That's kinda exciting if it really works....

-Noah

My FCP Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color and Win a Free Letus Extreme.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, DVD Studio Pro and Sound for Film and TV.
http://www.callboxlive.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: SDHC in place of SxS?
on Sep 18, 2008 at 1:53:24 pm

Just to be clear, it's EX1 firmware 1.11 that makes this possible. EX3 already has the correct firmware (supposedly). It's the firmware that allows the use of USB as used in the new Sony SxS Hard drive.

I haven't heard of ANYONE who's had success with anything HQ. Please tell me about that.
I have heard that people have had success with Lexar 8GB and SP recording.



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Noah Kadner
Re: SDHC in place of SxS?
on Sep 18, 2008 at 3:37:36 pm

I wish I could point you over to some of the threads that discuss this but I know the Cow prefers to not link to other forums. But I've read about success with it so we'll see. Anyone here willing to try?

Noah

My FCP Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color and Win a Free Letus Extreme.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, DVD Studio Pro and Sound for Film and TV.
http://www.callboxlive.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: SDHC in place of SxS?
on Sep 18, 2008 at 5:03:47 pm

Wish there was a COW private message system. At one of the two other places I know you "exist" at I sent you a Private Message. If you pop over there and take a look at my PM, maybe we can at least report where things are here at the COW. I don't want to encourage people to spend money/time on things people have found don't work. I think we can report findings and allow COW folk to research without pointing elsewhere.

I think MANY EX users are interested in this but we can keep things COW original.

Right now the only thing I've seen as close to reliable is Lexar 8GB is SP mode.



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Alan Lacey
Re: SDHC in place of SxS?
on Sep 18, 2008 at 8:49:43 pm

I've an EX and also read those posts Noah.

Having just had the firmware upgrade, I've ordered the necessary kensington and Transcend flash memory.

I'll let you know how I get on. It's a much cheaper solution if it works.

Alan in PAL(no i50)land



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David Issko
Re: SDHC in place of SxS?
on Sep 18, 2008 at 10:45:17 pm

I have read the many posts on that forum as well. It surprised me that people are taking these steps to yes, save a bundle of cash (at least initially) on their recording medium outlay because the EX cameras are designed to directly work with the Sony SxS cards.

If one wants cheaper & unauthorised recording medium, then there will be consequences. I paid a bundle of cash for my new 32Gb Sony SxS cards, but I see them as workhorses for the next umpteen years, doing everything they are meant to do. I can rest easy, knowing that I have over 200 minutes of HQ recording without worrying about whether the cards are going to stop recording before they are full.

I'm very weary about the workarounds but let me stress that those who have had reasonable luck with whatever other medium they are recording onto, I wish them all the very best and hope that they do not have any problems ever.

Best wishes to all
David



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Steven Thomas
Re: SDHC in place of SxS?
on Sep 19, 2008 at 3:52:21 am


Here's the info on SDHC and an expresscard reader for the EX1. I have not confirmed the EX3.

First of all:
It's important to understand that I've only on day two of testing.
Please do not run out and buy this combo until I've had time to run it through longer testing.

Having said that it runs every HQ mode with no errors! It will not work with S&Q mode, but the new Sony PHU-60K drive does not neither.

Read on...


The only bad news is I could not get the AFT PROExpress-7 expresscard to work with the new Extreme III 30MB/s. It had a media error. Oddly, the very first time I tried the combo, it asked to be formatted, then failed with the media error. After that, It never gave the format option again, even after formatting the card on the PC and trying again.


Here's my CrystalDiskMark data rates for the NEW Extreme:

SanDisk SDHC 16GB Extreme III 30MB/s

Sustained data rate: Read: 19.06MB/s Write: 15.81MB/s
Random 512K file: Read: 18.76MB/s Write: 3.703MB/s
Random 4K file: Read: 3.581MB/s to 6.46MB/s Write: 0.036MB/s

Since all the values were very close to each other, I did not write down a min max range.

My understanding is in order to actually get the new SanDisk Extreme III manufacture data rate claim (30MB/s), special device firmware must be programmed. The new Nikon D90 has just that. In fact, SanDisk designed the new Extreme III (30MB/s) for the D90.

Having said that, I did notice that the cards data rates are very repeatable. Also, the 512K random data rate at 3.7MB/s is the highest I've measure and seen for SDHC cards.

I'm not sure how high the Sony EX1 data rate may momentarily burst when using HQ mode (I'm thinking about 5MB/s), but based on the sustained 15.81 MB writes and 3.7MB/s 512K file random writes it appears it may be fast enough for all HQ modes. The sustained data writes were very repeatable. This along with a bit quicker random writes, may of been the ticket.

Here's the ONLY problem, it works with the Kensington Expresscard which with the SDHC card inserted will not allow the EX1 memory door to close. It only misses it by a mm or so... bummer.

Having said that, for 16GB:

1, Kensington 7-in-1 Media Reader $ 36 (USD)
1, SanDisk Extreme III 16GB 30MB/s version $129 (USD)
______________________________________________
Total USD: $165.00 (USD) !!!


Not bad for being able to record EX1 HQ modes.

Again, I'd wait until you hear more from me. I want to test it everyday for a week or so.

So far, I've been trying different record modes. I had one run recording over 40 minutes no issues..
Also, I've been starting and stopping recording after only a second or two. This has made my previous memory cards/AFT reader fail.
Also, for some reason 1080i would fail easier.

The new SanDisk Extreme III SDHC 16GB 30MB/s version is really fast and is working well (as of now) with the Kensington card.
I have not had a chance to test other SDHC memory wih the Kensington adaptor. I waited for the new Extreme which is working great.

Right now, after two days of testing, I have not had one error (knock on wood..LOL).
It's looking good...
Now, only if the damn memory door would close!

Look for further updates.




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Steven Thomas
Re: SDHC in place of SxS?
on Sep 20, 2008 at 4:16:49 am

Just a quick update.

Day three running tests using:

1, Kensington 7-in-1 expresscard Media Reader $ 36 (USD)
1, SanDisk Extreme III 16GB 30MB/s version $129 (USD)

I've been recording and playing back all day with HQ modes.
No problem, works great (so far).

I've been searching for more expresscard adaptors that will allow the EX1 memory door to close.
Other than that, the Kensington works great (with HQ and SP modes).




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Enrique Orozco
Re: SDHC in place of SxS?
on Sep 22, 2008 at 7:06:27 pm

any news on compatibilty also on the EX3 will be greatly apreciated... maybe the un-closed door is no problem on the EX3... is it ???

Regards



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Steven Thomas
Re: SDHC in place of SxS?
on Sep 30, 2008 at 11:59:52 am

Yes,
I heard with Kensington and SDHC inserted, the door closes on the EX3.



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Alan Lacey
Re: SDHC in place of SxS?
on Sep 19, 2008 at 7:57:24 am

I agree to some extent David, I think the more options available the better and a cheap card that you can hand over to the client there and then, or for archive purposes?? who knows?

Alan



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Noah Kadner
Re: SDHC in place of SxS?
on Sep 19, 2008 at 1:39:18 pm

Or just because it's fun to experiment....

Noah

My FCP Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color and Win a Free Letus Extreme.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, DVD Studio Pro and Sound for Film and TV.
http://www.callboxlive.com


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Stephen May
Re: SDHC in place of SxS?
on Sep 20, 2008 at 4:02:15 am

100% with you both! Competition is healthy in marketplace for recordable media - increases improvements and helps drive costs down, can't be good for the end-user to be left with a single source for media. That would be like only one company making BetaSP tapes, or DVCAM, etc. Imagine that!

Anyway, it get old having to probe and communicate back and forth as consumers trying to get to the bottom of issues that are often caused by a lack of disclosure or a vail of hidden specs. Forums are healthy avenues to arriving at answers that are not disclosed by other means, and I think it's great that you guys are searching for a more affordable recording media. They work great (as they should) but they're very expensive. I think it's safe to predict that they will become much more affordable as other companies that manufacture recordable media enter the playing field.

I for one will certainly buy media that is less expensive and reliable, and I will watch this thread to see how things go. Thanks for experimenting and researching this, and for sharing your results.

-s

Stephen May
Keystone Media Productions
Freelance Videographer


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Craig Seeman
Re: SDHC in place of SxS?
on Sep 22, 2008 at 7:56:18 pm

I've heard that

Kensington 7-in-1 Media Reader
SanDisk Extreme III 16GB 30MB/s version

Is working even in HQ mode (but not S&Q "under/overcrank).

I can't confirm this but it is what I've read from those doing these tests.





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