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XD Cam workflow

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Salvatore Interlandi
XD Cam workflow
on Aug 22, 2008 at 5:37:22 pm

Anyone out there have any advice on a efficient workflow with the XD Cam EX 3.
I would like to shoot HQ 1080 24 P - (Having some difficulties transferring these files on Studio 2. I have a MAC book, I'm assuming I need Clip Browser2 to do that, but My Mac is not an Intel.)

Anyway, I do not want to work in HD uncompressed it will be just too much of a monster, but I also do not want to edit on this transport codec... sp 1080 or hq 1080.
I would like to edit in HD, intraframe with a 4:2:2 color space.
What is the best and most efficient way to do that?
Is it by transferring footage to pro res? do I lose anything by doing that? Do I do that thru compressor?
Or is there a way to go to Pro Res from the Native BPAV.


Thanks in Advance


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Craig Seeman
Re: XD Cam workflow
on Aug 23, 2008 at 1:01:28 am

[Salvatore Interlandi] "I have a MAC book, I'm assuming I need Clip Browser2 to do that, but My Mac is not an Intel.) "

MacBook and MacBookPro are Intel.
iBook and PowerBook are PPC.

Clip Browser only runs on Intel
XDCAM Transfer Tool runs on both PPC and Intel.

[Salvatore Interlandi] "I would like to edit in HD, intraframe with a 4:2:2 color space.
What is the best and most efficient way to do that?
Is it by transferring footage to pro res? do I lose anything by doing that?"


I edit in XDCAM EX but set sequence renders to Pro Res.
You should not be able to see the loss going to Pro Res in most cases and your graphic renders may hold up better.

Compressor . . . you must have a LOT of time on your hands to do that . . . ESPECIALLY if you're not on Intel.

Just edit native and set sequence renders to Pro Res.
Why don't you want to do that?

Maybe if you had AJA IO you could go to Pre Res real time (on Intel).







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Salvatore Interlandi
Re: XD Cam workflow
on Aug 23, 2008 at 2:44:25 pm

Thanks for getting back to me Craig -

I do have a G4 PPC - sorry for the confusion.

How do I set sequence renders to Pro Res? Do I do that thru the sequence setting window?
What is AJA IO?

Transferring to Pro Res was in hopes of gaining color space and getting around the long gop.

Do you suggest shooting HQ 1080 24 P?



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Craig Seeman
Re: XD Cam workflow
on Aug 23, 2008 at 3:22:35 pm

[Salvatore Interlandi] "I do have a G4 PPC - sorry for the confusion. "
That would mean XDCAM Transfer Tool only.
Shot Put Express is inexpensive and has very good copy function. I mention this because you should copy and back up the original BPAV folders.

[Salvatore Interlandi] "How do I set sequence renders to Pro Res? Do I do that thru the sequence setting window? "
Sequences Setting, Render Control Tab, change Codec from Same as Sequence to Apple Pro Res.

[Salvatore Interlandi] "What is AJA IO? "
See this. It'll do realtime conversion to Pro Res using its own DSP.
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php

[Salvatore Interlandi] "Transferring to Pro Res was in hopes of gaining color space and getting around the long gop."

For editing, changing the sequence codec render setting should be enough. All your filters and compositing will be done in Pro Res "space." I'm not sure how Color handles this though. Magic Bullet seems to work. I know Cinema Tools requires one to get out of Long GOP so it may depend on what you need to do.

[Salvatore Interlandi] "Do you suggest shooting HQ 1080 24 P?"
It depends on your target. Shooting in 24P requires a good understanding of how movement responds to temporal motion. Some people like the look. I generally shoot 30p unless I'm shooting sports in which case it's either 1080i60 or 720p60. 1080p24 would be good if you're going to Blu-ray for example. It really depends on the look you want and where your final product is headed.





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Harcharan Singh
Re: for Indie Film
on Aug 24, 2008 at 11:51:58 am

What should be the workflow for any Indie Film Shot on EX3..Please some qurries here if for theatere release on 35mm or D-Cinema :-
1. Shooting 1080p/24fps or 720p/24fps?
2. Capturing thru HD-SDI of Camera thru AJA Kona 3 to FCP or copying the XDCAM files from card to HDD?
3. Using Pro res for render and captures ?

Thanks
Harcharan




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Ernesto Livon-Grosman
Re: for Indie Film
on Aug 24, 2008 at 12:26:16 pm

Two questions, both related to workflow with the Sony EX3

a) is it possible to work with no problem with FCP 5.1.4? Would it be any particular advantage to upgrading FCP in order to work with the EX3?

b) once I can see the clips on the Sony browser what would I need to do to import those clips into FCP?

Many thanks in advance,

e.


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Craig Seeman
Re: for Indie Film
on Aug 25, 2008 at 4:36:14 am

[Ernesto Livon-Grosman] "a) is it possible to work with no problem with FCP 5.1.4? Would it be any particular advantage to upgrading FCP in order to work with the EX3? "

Update to FCP 6.0.2 (and up).

As to using 5.1.4 . . . it may be possible to climb Mount Everest in your bare feat too.
You will spend hours/days of your life converting to another codec since one must have FCP 6.0.2 and up to have the EX codec.




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Craig Seeman
Re: for Indie Film
on Aug 25, 2008 at 4:40:08 am

I'd suggest 1080p24 unless you thing the extra bits per pixels gains you something at 720p24. The rest may depend on your resources and too many variables to answer since you haven't given much info to go on. Some might want to move to ProRes or even ProResHQ for heavy compositing and color correction but I wouldn't suggest that as an absolute by any means.



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Harcharan Singh
Re: for Indie Film
on Aug 26, 2008 at 3:28:31 am

Hi Craig,
Thks for your reply.We will be shooting in EX3 and edit on FCP6 with AJA Kona 3 card.
The project is a full length regional film which will have a theatrical release and digital cinema release.
Do you think the camera and edit setup is good enough for reasanably good results and what precautions should we take during shoot and edit?
Thks
Harchu



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Salvatore Interlandi
Re: for Indie Film
on Aug 27, 2008 at 5:40:10 am

Is that uncompressed HD 1080 while you edit?
Are you still shooting on the XD Card?

Need to be schooled a bit on this - sorry if these are silly questions -

But- do we lose color space by shooting in LONG GOP?
If I shoot with the EX 3 onto cards at 35mbs - 4:2:0 color space and then edit in that codec - could I regain that color space when I out put or go to color correction?

Or should I again shoot at hq 1080 24 p and transfer to pro Res (4:2:2)?
Or do I shoot with HD- SDI converter from convergent design to get around the long gop and the color space issue...?





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Don Greening
Re: for Indie Film
on Aug 27, 2008 at 5:06:05 pm

[Salvatore Interlandi] "But- do we lose color space by shooting in LONG GOP?"

The colour space of long GOP recording is 4:2:0 but there are so many scan lines in a 1920 X 1080 EX frame that you end up with more colour information to work with than many of today's other available 4:2:2 capable cameras that use smaller frame sizes.

[Salvatore Interlandi] "If I shoot with the EX 3 onto cards at 35mbs - 4:2:0 color space and then edit in that codec - could I regain that color space when I out put or go to color correction? "

No. You cannot regain colour information that's not there to begin with, but you can transcode your clips to an "I-frame" 4:2:2 codec like Apple's Pro Res or Panasonic's DVCPRO HD etc. so the colour information you do have available is retained during colour grading and various other re-compression stages before your final delivery.

If you record at 4:2:0 to the SxS Pro cards that is what you will end up with no matter how you transfer the footage to your NLE afterwards. The only way to get the 4:2:2 space is to record to an external device using the EX HD SDI port. Unfortunately in your case, and as I understand it, the EX does not stream 1080p 24 through SDI (according to the EX manual). A future firmware upgrade may change that, which would be great.

Hope this helps.

- Don



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Craig Seeman
Re: for Indie Film
on Aug 27, 2008 at 6:30:50 pm

"[Salvatore Interlandi] "If I shoot with the EX 3 onto cards at 35mbs - 4:2:0 color space and then edit in that codec - could I regain that color space when I out put or go to color correction? " "

One compromise is to set your EX sequence to render in Apple ProRes. As Don says, you wont regain the color info but all compositing and filters will happen in 4:2:2. I find this a good fast compromise especially if you don't have the means to go to ProRes in realtime.


[Don Greening] "the EX does not stream 1080p 24 through SDI (according to the EX manual). A future firmware upgrade may change that, which would be great.
"


Firmware upgrade EX1 1.11 will allow 24p PSF frames out of HD-SDI. I'm hearing it'll be about 2 or 3 weeks . . . and then you'll have to send your cameras in.




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Harcharan Singh
Re: for Indie Film...Why Kona then?
on Aug 28, 2008 at 4:48:21 am

Hi,
Does EX3 also cannot sent 1080 24p thru HD-SDI?
If we use memory cards whether it is SxS or Nanoflash why is expensive cards such as AJA Kona required..for final mastering I suppose ..? This also means death of feeder VTR's etc.Your thoughts please



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Don Greening
Re: for Indie Film...Why Kona then?
on Aug 28, 2008 at 5:09:07 am

[Harcharan Singh] "Does EX3 also cannot sent 1080 24p thru HD-SDI? "

According to Sony, any EX1 or EX3 camera shipped from the factory in the second half of August can stream 1080p 24 through the SDI port. Cameras made earlier than that will have to wait for 3 weeks for an official Sony announcement as to when a firmware upgrade will be available for all earlier EX series cameras.

[Harcharan Singh] "If we use memory cards whether it is SxS or Nanoflash why is expensive cards such as AJA Kona required..for final mastering I suppose ..?"

A card like the Kona would be needed if you want to connect a broadcast monitor to your editing suite via HD SDI or you want to print to HD tape and change codecs (like DVCPRO HD) in real time, which the Kona 3 card can do. But for normal editing of EX footage you don't need an expensive 3rd party card.

- Don





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