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helicopter shooting with ex1

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gary coler
helicopter shooting with ex1
on Aug 9, 2008 at 5:28:41 pm

has anyone used the ex1 from a helicopter? if so how well does the stabilizer work?
thanks gary



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Rob Grauert
Re: helicopter shooting with ex1
on Aug 9, 2008 at 6:42:50 pm

I've never used the EX1, let alone on a helicopter, but I do have some useful information.

I read an article about CMOS vs CCD. Both sensors have their own kids of artifacting, and the reason is because of the "shutter." Video cameras don't really have a shutter, it's just how often the sensor activates to become sensitive to light. When the CCD actives, the whole sensor becomes sensitive to light, whereas a CMOS sensor becomes sensitive starting at the top and then working it's way to the bottom. I think the big issue is when you use a CCD camera and you shake the camera, you see the shaky footage we're all used to seeing. But when you use a CMOS sensor the image looks like it's wobbling. I think it looks worse. The reason I bring this us is because I've seen footage from a CMOS camera on a tripod from a helicopter and I couldn't watch for more than a few seconds. The remedy isn't boosting shutter speed like you do with a CCD sensor, instead you boost the frame rate.

Now, if you are shooting handheld from the helicopter you may not experience the horrific image wobble i viewed.

Robert J. Grauert, Jr.


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Ron Shook
Re: Horrendous Wobble and Slant Somewhat Bogus
on Aug 10, 2008 at 3:56:13 am

Rob,

[Rob Grauert] "I've never used the EX1, let alone on a helicopter, but I do have some useful information.

I read an article about CMOS vs CCD. Both sensors have their own kids of artifacting, and the reason is because of the "shutter." Video cameras don't really have a shutter, it's just how often the sensor activates to become sensitive to light. When the CCD actives, the whole sensor becomes sensitive to light, whereas a CMOS sensor becomes sensitive starting at the top and then working it's way to the bottom. I think the big issue is when you use a CCD camera and you shake the camera, you see the shaky footage we're all used to seeing. But when you use a CMOS sensor the image looks like it's wobbling. I think it looks worse. The reason I bring this us is because I've seen footage from a CMOS camera on a tripod from a helicopter and I couldn't watch for more than a few seconds. The remedy isn't boosting shutter speed like you do with a CCD sensor, instead you boost the frame rate.

Now, if you are shooting handheld from the helicopter you may not experience the horrific image wobble i viewed."


Nor will anyone else with an EX camcorder as far as I know. I wasn't going to bring this up until I had more time to research it more, but this is an obvious opportuniy. There is no doubt but what there can be significant artifacts from CMOS sensors just as there can be significant artifacts of a different sort from CCD sensors, but I'm pretty certain that these horrendous wobble and slant examples that we've seen on the Web of CMOS sensors going into the grotesque zone to dis CMOS are probably a specific artifact that only very slightly applies to the EX.

I have never seen a single EX example of awful wobble and slant, in handheld, chopper, plane or boat shooting. Perhaps others have. I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure that all of these horrible examples on the Web were shot with Canon HV20's or similar and edited with FCP. The reason for this statement comes from an experience I had trying to help a friend's son with terrible wobble and slant/bend shot handheld with an HV20. This was on the worst handheld shooting I've ever seen, where he gave his friend his camera, so that he would be in some of the shots out on a mountain hiking outing.

What he showed me on his Apple lappy was really grotesque wobble, extremely evident even on the organic scenery, as bad or worse than anything I've seen on the Web. This was captured firewire into FCP and then had the FCP steadying/smoothing filter applied. I don't use FCP so I don't know the exact nomenclature for this famous filter. I asked to see the same original captured clip without filtering. It was obvious that the filter added to the problems, but they were still quite evident in he captured clip.

Now, here's the funny thing, and I have no way to explain it. I ask for the original tape and played it directly from the HV20, component, into my HDTV. The footage looked OK and as I expected it would look, with a hint of CMOS artifacting if I looked for it, but nothing at all real obvious as I'd seen in FCP. There shouldn't have been a difference between the original and the unfiltered FCP in terms of wobble, but there was. There seemed to be some unexplained artifacting going from the HV20 to FCP or some playback anomaly in FCP, something that it seems obvious doesn't happen with EX footage. I'm at a lose to explain this. But that's why I say that this problem with the EX is somewhat bogus.

Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*


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Rafael Amador
Re: Horrendous Wobble and Slant Somewhat Bogus
on Aug 10, 2008 at 4:36:14 am

Hi Gary,
I have shoot with the EX-1 in hand from a helicopter. I agree with Ron, no problem at all about the Rolling shooter. Amazing how much you can push the zoom in and keeping the image stable and clear.
rafael


http://www.nagavideo.com


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Ron Shook
Re: Horrendous Wobble and Slant Somewhat Bogus
on Aug 10, 2008 at 7:03:57 am

Rafael,

[Rafael Amador] "the Rolling shooter"

You were inebriated? (g)

Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*


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Rafael Amador
Re: Horrendous Wobble and Slant Somewhat Bogus
on Aug 10, 2008 at 10:22:56 am

Hi Ron,
Sorry, typing from inside a chopper leads to things like that :-)
I agree with you that, if not properly used, the FC's "SmoothCam', can degrade the picture. Is not a filter to just drop in your clip in the time-line. You need to prepare your footage before apply it.
rafael


http://www.nagavideo.com


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gary coler
Re: Horrendous Wobble and Slant Somewhat Bogus
on Aug 10, 2008 at 11:47:02 am

what settings are you using.this would be a big help.
thanks gary



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Rafael Amador
Re: Horrendous Wobble and Slant Somewhat Bogus
on Aug 10, 2008 at 1:03:02 pm

The only chance I had so far to shot with the EX-1 I had the camera since just few days, so I had quite little experience.
I shoot with the Standard PP. This is no much to concern about unless you shot in too bright or too dark conditions.
I was ending up in a PAL DVD, so I shoot 1080i. I shoot interlaced too because this would reduce the risk of the "Rolling Shutter" too. I would like to try 720p50 too.
I'd let the Shutter OFF. Manual focus to Infinity. if you are holding the camera with your hands, you can not do much more than try to keep it steady and control the light.
Off course I took the lens cap away and used some rubber bands to keep the screen locked. A "day Light" lens to protect the objective.
When I shoot I had a lot of problems no for the camera but for the position (I have a guy making pictures between my and the window). To film a forest from a helicopter I think is a hard test for an MPG2 format.
IMO it pass it very well.
Rafael


http://www.nagavideo.com


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Eirik Meyer Amundsen
Re: helicopter shooting with ex1
on Sep 14, 2010 at 10:10:43 am

No problem shooting handheld from a helicopter 1080P as long as you
are using a shutterspeed (50).

Eirik MA

EIRIK MEYER AMUNDSEN


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Paul Zwicker
Re: helicopter shooting with ex1
on Aug 28, 2008 at 3:15:05 pm

I have a Tyler Nose Mount job coming up with my EX3.
I hope to get the remote so I can control the camera zoom, record, etc...
Any suggestions for settings would be helpful.
I'll use a polarizer with the standard zoom lens. Shooting 720/60 maybe 125th sec or higher.
Client may want to slo-mo footage so 720/60 looks like my option.

Thanks,

BTW. I used these setting on a speed boat shooting people wakeboarding. Footage looks great in slowed 50-35%. Stabilizer was on land helped a lot.

Paul



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Eirik Meyer Amundsen
Re: helicopter shooting with ex1
on Sep 13, 2010 at 6:27:26 am

184986u21512500168755650


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