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EX1 - suitable for fast paced action?

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John Alder
EX1 - suitable for fast paced action?
on Jul 16, 2008 at 2:36:30 am

Hi Folks, I'm interested in getting one or two Ex1 for a football TV series, the main requirement I need is the HD-SDI out, slow-mo capture and the fast tapeless transfer to FCP.

The main concern I have after reading reviews and user feedbacks is the rolling shutter on the EX1. Is it suitable for fast paced sports events, for example close up of the players dribbling and the camera panning as the ball is shot into the net.. Would I encounter a 'slanted' goal post due to the camera tracking the ball into the net or a distorted player?

I was looking at a Z7 and a Z1 but thought the EX1 would be more suitable.

Would I be better off with a CCD type camera? if so, any recommendations?

Thanks for any advice.
John


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Michael Palmer
Re: EX1 - suitable for fast paced action?
on Jul 16, 2008 at 5:21:46 am

I don't believe a rolling shutter is the issue, it is high compressed Long GOP that is not so good for motion shooting. However you could take advantage of the EX1/3 imager and record to another source like the Convergent Design Flash XDR compact flash HD-SDI recorder that allows you to choose the proper compression level you need for the project. Including an all-frame 160Mbps 4:2:2 level.
http://www.convergent-design.com/


Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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Craig Seeman
Re: EX1 - suitable for fast paced action?
on Jul 16, 2008 at 5:40:50 am

I've been shooting Tennis without any problems. I've seen some soccer (futbol) video though where I can see the background vertical lines "bend" when the camera tracks a running player.

I don't think the long GOP is an issue at all as far as I can see. I think plenty of people are using XDCAM (as well as EX) to shoot sports and the codec is VERY HARD to break (in fact I can't as of yet). If you're shooting sports you should shoot 720p60(50PAL) or 1080i59.94(50PAL). I haven't seen the image "go soft" (sign the codec can't handle the data rate) under those circumstances.



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wil drake
Re: EX1 - suitable for fast paced action?
on Dec 27, 2008 at 8:17:52 am

Hello, I was hoping to get in a question of my own if possible.

I shoot ski/snowboard action which is often very 'pan' and motion orientend. Are you saying that there is no problem with the EX-1 when shooting pans of fast moving objects? What about if the camera is in motion as well? In your opinion would Panasonic's CCD's and DVCHD be a better choice for my application? I am about to buy either the HVX200a, PX170 or the EX-1. I really like a lot about all of the cameras, but when it comes down to it, I need something that can shoot HD at high FPS with little to no pixel skew/smear/line "fcuk up", etc...

thanks and with much appreciation

wil drake

empty roll productions



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wil drake
Re: EX1 - suitable for fast paced action?
on Dec 27, 2008 at 8:16:34 am

Hello, I was hoping to get in a question of my own if possible.

I shoot ski/snowboard action which is often very 'pan' and motion orientend. Are you saying that there is no problem with the EX-1 when shooting pans of fast moving objects? What about if the camera is in motion as well? In your opinion would Panasonic's CCD's and DVCHD be a better choice for my application? I am about to buy either the HVX200a, PX170 or the EX-1. I really like a lot about all of the cameras, but when it comes down to it, I need something that can shoot HD at high FPS with little to no pixel skew/smear/line "fcuk up", etc...

thanks and with much appreciation

wil drake

empty roll productions
Bellingham WA



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Tom David
Re: EX1 - suitable for fast paced action?
on Jul 16, 2008 at 11:41:11 am

I have been satisfied with shooting sport (soccer) on EX1s, both normal and high speed footage, and loved the results.

If high speed footage capture is really your only main concern with choosing the EX1s over another camera, consider this:

When broadcast, your program will undergo serious compression anyway depending on bandwidth available to any particular tv network, so ultimately, fast pans and ball movements will contain a high percentage of artifacts.

For example, Australian digital SD tv broadcast is pretty good when it comes to sports broadcasts and broadcast qulaity of video, but our digital HD broadcasts can contain high artifacts and even streaking and become quite noticeable (though the masses with their shiny new HD tvs will never tell the difference). It seems, in Australia anyway, that HD is compressed at a higher ratio to SD broadcasts.

And these broadcasts are shot on top quality gear - it is the actaul transmission of the high motion signal that lets you down in my experience - not your acquisition.

Go the EX1s if they fit all your other criteria. Good luck!



Cheers,
Tom

Camera Operator - Editor - Motion Graphics
(http://www.tomdavid.com.au)


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John Alder
Re: EX1 - suitable for fast paced action?
on Jul 16, 2008 at 3:40:55 pm

Thanks for the replies guys. Sorry if I sound a little unsure of the outcome as one reply was negative and another positive on the rolling shutter issue for sports filming.. :)

Craig, was it obvious to the eye when played back real time? (for the 'background vertical lines "bend" when the camera tracks a running player.')

Tom, high speed capture will certainly be a plus for the show. I am not too concern about the broadcast station's standard as it is out of my control.. not to mention that I am delivering this project in SD. :)




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Ron Shook
Re: EX1 - suitable for fast paced action?
on Jul 17, 2008 at 5:42:28 pm

John,

[John Alder] "was it obvious to the eye when played back real time? (for the 'background vertical lines "bend" when the camera tracks a running player.')"

Let's put this CMOS slant artifact discussion into the context of the abstraction of reality that is video. First, I would say that the vertical lines "slant" rather than "bend," and yes, it's noticable, if you take pains to notice it, rather than the player which everyone else is noticing. The player is slanting as well, but his/her organic shape makes that slight slanting virtually un-noticable.

Is this "bad?" Maybe, maybe not! It's different from CCD's and is certainly a further abstraction from reality, but there is a sense in which that further abstraction is "good," in the sense of adding to the dynamism of the imaging. As a gross example think about comic book art, where speed and movement is depicted by gross slanting of the verticals and subjects. We sense dynamism in the slant, are conditioned to it, and I would suggest that the natural dynamism of sports may perhaps be slightly enhanced by the slight slant of CMOS, an unintended consequence.

I don't know if I could take this to the bank (or if it would cause the bank to fail), but maybe it's worth considering. (g) My guess is that lots of folks would sense the CMOS sports images as slightly "better" than the CCD sports images as long as you didn't point out the "bad" reality stuff.

How's that for tripping lightly around the holes in the ground? (g)

Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*


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Don Greening
Re: EX1 - suitable for fast paced action?
on Jul 18, 2008 at 12:43:01 am

[Ron Shook] "As a gross example think about comic book art"

I can identify with that for sure, since I'm living a comic book life.

Nicely done, Ron. I'm walking over to your side of the ring on this one because it makes sense. If slanted verticals are good enough for the RED ONE it's good enough for the EX.

- Don



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Ron Shook
Re: EX1 - suitable for fast paced action?
on Jul 18, 2008 at 3:40:53 pm

Don,

[Don Greening] "I'm walking over to your side of the ring on this one"

Run don't walk. More dynamic! (g)

Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*


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