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Lawrence Robbin
shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 10, 2008 at 9:58:32 pm

Can anyone recommend a good portable support for the ex-1.


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Steve Wargo
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 11, 2008 at 5:24:27 am

I went to NAB looking for 4 things, one of them being a shoulder support for our EX-1 rental cameras. The only one tat qualified was the RedRock Micro unit. The bad thing is: There's a 3 month waiting list for those

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .


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Lawrence Robbin
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 11, 2008 at 4:14:20 pm

Thanks for info Steve. I'll check out your suggestion.The only other one I found was the VSB1 Video Camera Shoulder Brace. Maybe it's fine but it looks awkward.

Lawrence Robbin
San Jose, CA 95136
408. 265. 0684
Cell: 408. 646. 3041
Web site: http://members.aol.com/lrobbin1/index.html

LR


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Lawrence Robbin
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 11, 2008 at 6:42:10 pm

Thanks for info Steve. I'll check out your suggestion.The only other one I found was the VSB1 Video Camera Shoulder Brace. Maybe it's fine but it looks awkward.

Lawrence Robbin
San Jose, CA 95136
408. 265. 0684
Cell: 408. 646. 3041
Web site: http://members.aol.com/lrobbin1/index.html

LR


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Michael Slowe
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 11, 2008 at 7:47:58 pm

If you have seen the Vortex Media double DVD workshop on the EX1 you will have seen a shoulder brace used there. I forget the name but it looked really good and I meant to investigate, I think I will now because my hand and wrist is wearing out holding this great camera!

Michael Slowe


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Bruce Schultz
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 11, 2008 at 8:47:57 pm

I bought a PAG Orbiter shoulder mount and I'm quite happy with the way it works with the EX1. I also bought a zoom control and attached it to the right hand grip so that the camera could be zoomed without letting go of either grip. When focusing is required, it's easy to let go of the left grip to grasp and turn the focus ring. I use this rig when the shot requires an eye-level shot similar to a normal shoulder height shot you would get with a larger F900 or DigiBeta camcorder.

At around $700 it's not the cheapest one out there, but the range of motion it allows is better than any of the less expensive units I've tried and eliminated as either too cumbersome or restrictive.

I also occaisionally use a unit called CamHandle for camera stability. This unit gives you one grip on the left side of the camera which helps stabilize and level the camera since it notoriously likes to drift downward on the right. Removing your hand from this grip to focus is problematic though - so I only use it when the shot does not require any re-focusing as I've found that with the 1/2 inch chips giving you less depth of field - the autofocus feature is nearly useless as it constantly searches and therefore changes focus during a shot.

Bruce Schultz
Primetime Digital, Inc.
F900R / EX-1
IATSE 600 - Los Angeles based


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Lawrence Robbin
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 11, 2008 at 8:52:26 pm

Havent seen the Vortex Media double DVD workshop on the EX1... think I will take a chance on the red rock micro support system. got my fingers crossed.

LR


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Ron Shook
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 12, 2008 at 12:26:44 am

Steve,

[Steve Wargo] "The only one tat qualified was the RedRock Micro unit."

What do you mean by "qualified?" Did none of the units from Varizoom or DVTEC "qualify?"

Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*


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Steve Wargo
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 12, 2008 at 3:47:23 am

[Ron Shook] "What do you mean by "qualified?"

Manhandling cameras is what I've done for 25 years. The RedRock was the only one that felt stable, had a professionally machined base system and had the versatility to be configured in a few configurations. The handle mounts were flexible in how and where they mount. The locking levers were splined correctly and had a nice feel that won't dig into your fingers (compared to the garbage locking devices that are sold by the RED camera people). The color is properly applied to the aluminum and everything is finished.

Before video, I was a journeyman machinist and steel fabricator. IMHO (Actually, not too humble)




Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .


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Ron Shook
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 12, 2008 at 7:21:22 am

Steve,

[Steve Wargo] "Manhandling cameras is what I've done for 25 years. The RedRock was the only one that felt stable, had a professionally machined base system and had the versatility to be configured in a few configurations. The handle mounts were flexible in how and where they mount. The locking levers were splined correctly and had a nice feel that won't dig into your fingers (compared to the garbage locking devices that are sold by the RED camera people). The color is properly applied to the aluminum and everything is finished."

Hmmm, OK. Was this company at NAB?

http://www.dvtec.tv/index.html

The particular reason I ask is that if I get one of these devices, I'd definitely want one that has a support arm that puts most of the weight of everthing on my hips, not my arms.

[Steve Wargo] "Before video, I was a journeyman machinist and steel fabricator. IMHO (Actually, not too humble)"

Ha, I gave up using the H in that acronym a long time ago, figuring I never meant it anyhow. I'd rather be willing to admit to my mistakes than pretend humility. (g)

Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*


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ken hon
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 12, 2008 at 9:26:52 am

Aloha Ron,

We bought the DVTec DVrig Pro HD and I like it. It's certainly not sleek, but we bought it to hang a gyro off of for boat and helicopter use. I couldn't find a better inexpensive setup that would take our gyro. It's nice because we can put the big old gyro battery in the counterweight position on the shoulder pad and it offsets the camera and gyro weight pretty well. Just from photos, I think the PAG orbiter may have a better support stick setup, but I haven't used the one with the DVTec unit yet.

All that said, I can certainly see why Steve likes the Red Rock unit. It's sleek, simple, and robust--all pretty important if you are renting it out. We can afford to be a lot more fault tolerant as no one else uses our gear.

The other major player is Zacuto, but these are pretty complex sets of components (and appear easy to lose pieces if you are renting them out) and cost 3-4 times what the competitors do. You would have to be using these a lot more than we do to make the investment worthwhile.

Aloha,

Ken




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Ron Shook
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 12, 2008 at 5:19:58 pm

Ken,

[ken hon] "I can certainly see why Steve likes the Red Rock unit. It's sleek, simple, and robust"

I very much like that also, and the fact that it's constructed around rails. The DVTEC units, particularly the one that you have, are very reconfigurable, but also relatively complex monsters.

I'm wondering if you could take the Red Rock Device and easily add the DVTEC support pod and belt and attach it at the tripod mount location, perhaps with a bar to offset it forward.?

[ken hon] "We bought the DVTec DVrig Pro HD and I like it. It's certainly not sleek, but we bought it to hang a gyro off of for boat and helicopter use. I couldn't find a better inexpensive setup that would take our gyro. It's nice because we can put the big old gyro battery in the counterweight position on the shoulder pad and it offsets the camera and gyro weight pretty well. Just from photos"

Speaking of photos, I love to see this gear in action and see some results, particularly on a fast moving boat. Kudos for your ingenuity. Find a way to show us, please?

Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*


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Steve Wargo
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 14, 2008 at 6:29:52 am


[ken hon] "We bought the DVTec DVrig Pro HD and I like it"

I saw a DVTec unit on a guy's shoulder at NAB but didn't get a chance to try it on.

Because I'm too lazy too look it up, could you please give us a web address.



Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .


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ken hon
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 15, 2008 at 11:33:46 am

Aloha Steve and Ron,

Here is the link for Steve for the DVTEC multirig pro hd that we have.
http://www.dvtec.tv/id27.html

I think the company is based in Israel and there's only a couple of outlets here in the US, one on the East Coast and http://www.alangordon.com in California where we bought ours. Nice people.

Heres a photo from our workbench of the "hefty" version of the EX-1 with the KS-8 gyro and it's battery. Starting to compete with Steve's F900 for weight : )

http://volcanovideo.com/cow/

We shot from a boat for the first time on Friday night and it went pretty well. The thing is a bit of a beast with the gyro and it tries to walk off your shoulder when the boat turns left. Otherwise it worked pretty darn well. The boat was pitching up and down about 3 feet but the camera stayed pretty level. I was sitting on a central stowage locker and had the belt and support attached, I don't think I would have lasted long without it. I let the upper rod lock stay open and clamped the lower lock on the spring loaded rod. The lower one is kind of jerky, but the upper one allowed the camera to float more smoothly with the gyro. I'll try to get a video up, but we're getting ready for a month of travel and I don't have much time.

Aloha,

Ken







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Ron Shook
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 15, 2008 at 7:50:58 pm

Ken,

[ken hon] "We shot from a boat for the first time on Friday night and it went pretty well. The thing is a bit of a beast with the gyro and it tries to walk off your shoulder when the boat turns left. Otherwise it worked pretty darn well. The boat was pitching up and down about 3 feet but the camera stayed pretty level. I was sitting on a central stowage locker and had the belt and support attached, I don't think I would have lasted long without it. I let the upper rod lock stay open and clamped the lower lock on the spring loaded rod. The lower one is kind of jerky, but the upper one allowed the camera to float more smoothly with the gyro. I'll try to get a video up, but we're getting ready for a month of travel and I don't have much time."

Fascinating and thanks for the photo. Yeah, I think that you would have tanked real quickly without the support rod on that beast. But a beast with a purpose, eh? I sure hope I don't have to wait a month to see the results, but understand your priorities. (g)

Thanks again,

Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*


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ken hon
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 16, 2008 at 4:24:50 am

Aloha Ron,

Just for you, I've posted up a short quicktime movie of raw footage from the boat trip. I've just added a link on the same page.

http://volcanovideo.com/cow/

We don't have a need to do high speed filming and this is really our first try from a boat. Dean Sensui who posts here really knows how to film from boats, so he would be the one to ask about that.

Anyway, the first part is a clip of my wife filming with a small HDV camera. Notice how much she is moving up and down compared to the lava in the background. That's what the gyro buys you. Overall, we found this a lot harder than working in helicopters where we mount the camera and gyro on a Fig Rig that works well.

Aloha,

Ken




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Ron Shook
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 16, 2008 at 7:16:38 am

Ken,

You are a most estimable gentleman!!!

[ken hon] "the first part is a clip of my wife filming with a small HDV camera. Notice how much she is moving up and down compared to the lava in the background. That's what the gyro buys you. Overall, we found this a lot harder than working in helicopters where we mount the camera and gyro on a Fig Rig that works well."

Well I can see your rig works amazingly well. I can hardly believe it. You must be very pleased. Thank Heavens it was a short clip or I'd have gotten sick watching your wife bob up and down. (g)

Thanks for taking the time. I'm sure I won't be the only one to appreciate it.

Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*


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ken hon
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 16, 2008 at 8:39:46 am

Aloha Ron,

The DVTEC unit does work really well for this. It's extremely strong and has no problem with the weight I put on it. It doesn't bend or twist, though your spine will when the boat goes one way and the gyro the other.



Glad you enjoyed the footage, it was fun to do. Every once in a while I'd actually look out and go God that's cool, then of course the shot would go down the drain as the camera dives down. It some places the surface water is so hot, it's nearly boiling and the condensate fogs up your lens. Don't want to be in a rubber boat around this.


Spending 3 hours staring at a EX-1 screen on a bobbing boat can make you a bit dizzy! I tried to get Cheryl to quit bobbing, but she wouldn't do it. Luckily for me I've always hated to throw up, so it makes me less susceptible to the motion problems.

Aloha

Ken





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Dean Sensui
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 17, 2008 at 1:03:46 am

Ken...

Nice footage of the flow going into the sea. I have yet to see that in person.

For the time being I'm using a BTK system to compensate for boat pitch and roll: Bend The Knees. It works OK for some of the shooting if there's no telephoto work involved. Otherwise it's not stable enough.

I'm planning to rent a KS-8 and test it. My shoulder mount is crude by comparison and, because I depend on the camera's eyepiece for framing and focusing, it puts all of the weight forward of the shoulder, making it tough to hold up over time.

Often I'll use a monopod to help support the weight.

How are you monitoring your shots? With the LCD?

Next time I'm out in Hilo I should try to get in contact with you. I was just there last week for an overnight. A few more trips planned now that the ulua are supposed to be running.

On a totally off-topic point, have you guys tried dropping lines in the vicinity of the flow? I heard that fish bite like crazy there. Use whole akule or opelu as bait.

Aloha,

Dean Sensui -- Hawaii Goes Fishing


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ken hon
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 17, 2008 at 10:50:34 pm

Aloha Dean,

Well, I have a whole new appreciation for what you do. When the boat was really moving, I had to hold on just to stand up, no way I could have filmed anything. So if you're doing it all with knees, I'm amazed. Give us a call next time you're coming to Hilo, you can get our contacts from our website. You can play around a bit with the mount and see what you think. And supposedly a lot of fish hang around the hot/cold water boundary, but truthfully I'm about the world's worst fisherman. Next time maybe we'll have to bring a friend to catch dinner.

Aloha,

Ken





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Ron Shook
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 15, 2008 at 8:20:32 pm

Steve,

[Steve Wargo] "Because I'm too lazy too look it up, could you please give us a web address."

Ken gave you the biggie, but here's another from the same outfit that's a completely different type of beast, that can be folded to smaller than camera size, left on the camera in a slightly larger case, and be ready for use in a minute in 3 or 4 different modes, or go directly on a tripod. This might fit your use more than the big brute, but it's certainly more complex and thus capable of more variety of usage than the RedRock Micro unit. You'd have to stock up on allen wrenches. (g):

http://www.dvtec.tv/id33.html

Double click on the video demo to take it into YouTube where you can watch full screen if you want.

Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*


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Steve Wargo
For Ron Shook
on Jun 14, 2008 at 6:46:58 am

We have a Peter Lisand unit for our bigger cameras but I see that they have a smaller unit for smaller cameras. Maybe you cam do a deal with them for part of a kit. And, maybe I'll win the Lotto tonight.

http://www.peterlisand.com/


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/514113-REG/Peter_Lisand_BCS05_BCS_05_...




Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .


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Dan Gunn
Re: shoulder support ex-1
on Jun 18, 2008 at 6:28:16 pm

Check out dynamicmotionvideo.com. My EX-1 weights 8.4lbs when fully dressed out which is too heavy for my wimpy arms.. I bought the "CB105" and added a Pelican case with a 12v gelcell to offset the camera's weight. Like a seesaw it balances quite well and still allows you to tilt up or down. The top of the Pelican case provides a great place to velcro a receiver. My total investment was less than $100.00. BTW, last Saturday night, I used this shoulder bracket for about two hours. Pain and more pain. First time in years that I carried a camera on my shoulder. I talked with a trainer and he said the shoulder muscles were the weakest muscles in your body and suggested some simple freeweight exercises.

JoJo


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