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Another Issue

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Chris Babbitt
Another Issue
on Apr 28, 2008 at 8:38:50 pm

OK, here's another one for you...

I have done a couple of gigs with my EX-1 shot at 1080p in both SP and HD mode, and produced an SD DVD with excellent results. This weekend I did a gig, and since I knew that it would only ever be seen in DVD format, I decided, for the first time, to shoot in SD Interlaced (1080/60i).

I exported to Compressor from the HD sequence, and I am disappointed in the results compared to what I have produced before. It definitely has a softer look when watching the DVD, and one freeze frame has some aliasing, even though it looks completely clean in FCP. No other visible field order issues, so I don't think that's the reason.

So, I tried copying the sequence and pasting that into a DV-NTSC sequence, and then sending that to Compressor, like so many others have suggested, and all my graphics and even a LiveType title did not scale down. They are still huge and have to be manually resized. So, I don't think that is the answer.

Is there ever a reason to shoot interlaced, or was it a mistake for me to do so?


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Craig Seeman
EX HD downconversion to SD DVD quality on Mac
on Apr 28, 2008 at 9:22:54 pm

[Chris Babbitt] "SD Interlaced (1080/60i). "
SD????
You can certainly shoot 1080i60 in HQ mode (XDCAM) but can also do that in SP mode (HDV compatible). I'm not sure why you'd shoot in HDV mode as you're more likely to "break" the codec with that.

Given the above, I'm not sure what your FCP timeline codec was.
I don't know what settings you used in Compressor either.
You don't really explain exactly what you put in the DV timeline. If done correctly the graphics you'd re-render the graphics and they'd be at the correct size.

Also titling a thread "Another Issue" doesn't really tell anyone enough info to get experienced people to read it.




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Chris Babbitt
Re: EX HD downconversion to SD DVD quality on Mac
on Apr 28, 2008 at 9:59:22 pm

Sorry Craig.

I meant to say SP. I know I'm having trouble communicating this clearly. I shot in Sp, because I needed the extra space on my cards. I shot in an interlaced format, because I didn't know what kind of equipment it would be presented on, and thought interlaced would be safer.

The timeline codec was HD 1440x1080. I exported directly to Compressor mpg2 using appropriate settings to produce a 15 min. DVD. As I said, I was unhappy with the result, so I copied the whole timeline and dropped that into a DV-NTSC timeline. My .psd graphics and a Livetype title did not scale down. A title created in Boris Title 3D DID scale down correctly. I tried this twice with the same result. So, I didn't take it any further. I didn't see any evidence of "breaking the codec." I just thought the result was not a crisp as I've seen when starting with 1080p material. And then, there was the issue of that one freeze frame that looks aliased.

So, should I stay away from shooting in interlaced, or do you think I have done something else wrong? As I said before, I have had great results shooting in both HQ and SP progressive mode.



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Don Greening
Re: EX HD downconversion to SD DVD quality on Mac
on Apr 29, 2008 at 1:10:34 am

[Chris Babbitt] "So, should I stay away from shooting in interlaced, or do you think I have done something else wrong?"

Chris,

Perhaps we can figure out this interlaced-downconvert thing together. I'm about to do a FCP 3 camera edit where one of the cameras was my EX shooting interlaced. The final product will be on DVD. I decided on interlaced because of possible low light issues and also to be more compatible with the other SD cameras I'm using. Trying to get all cameras to match will be interesting. One thing we learned from yesterday's 3 camera shoot so far: I wish all my cameras were recording to SxS cards.

If you wish you can correspond with me at: greening at shaw dot ca.

- Don



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Chris Babbitt
Re: EX HD downconversion to SD DVD quality on Mac
on Apr 29, 2008 at 1:30:27 am

Hmmm..

I don't know what light level has to do with interlaced vs. Progressive. That's a new one for me, but I guess there are reasons why Sony gave us a choice. I'd just like to know what they are. Please understand...The resulting DVD wasn't bad; just not as good as when I shot in Progressive. And then there's the matter of that weird still-frame. I did notice that Compressor automatically adds de-interlace filtering, and gives you the option of three levels of quality, but not "none." Does that mean that Compressor is de-interlacing the footage? It also sets the field order as upper. Should it be set to none instead? So far, I've just been going with the default settings, and it worked fine when working with HQ Progressive formats.



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Don Greening
Re: EX HD downconversion to SD DVD quality on Mac
on Apr 29, 2008 at 1:49:00 am

[Chris Babbitt] "I don't know what light level has to do with interlaced vs. Progressive."

Well this one is easy to show you. Turn on your EX, go to the menu and switch between 1080i and 1080p. You'll notice a substantial difference in how bright the picture is as you toggle between the two settings.

The rest of your questions are things I can't comment on until I go through the workflow myself. This is also the first time I've shot interlaced with the EX. I'm going to try making an interlaced DVD as well as a progressive one.

- Don



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Rafael Amador
Re: Another Issue
on Apr 29, 2008 at 2:52:54 am

[Chris Babbitt] "copying the sequence and pasting that into a DV-NTSC sequence"
Don't Copy&Paste. Drag your HD sequence to a 16x9 SD sequence. You won't need to resize nothing. Set the "Render all YUV material in High Precision" and Motion rendering BEST. If you export a Self-Contained, don't use NTSC DV as your codec. Interlacing is not an issue when going fro HD to SD.



Mac OX 10.5.2-FC 6.02-QT 7.4.1
G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM-BlackMagic Extreme
PMBP 17"Core2Duo 4GbRAM-AJA ioHD
JVC DTV-17"
SONY EX-1 . SONY PD170
..and always a big mess on top of the table.


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Chris Babbitt
Re: Another Issue
on Apr 29, 2008 at 7:54:20 am

Right on Rafael! It worked, but it's interesting that the article on Ken Stone's website on EX-1 workflow suggests the copy & paste method.



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Rafael Amador
Re: Another Issue
on Apr 29, 2008 at 1:25:45 pm

Copy and Paste and then resize is the correct way if you had a 24fps HD sequence and you go to NTSC. FC wouldn't let you drag a sequence to another sequence with different time-base.
I'm editing the EX-1 footage in an EX-1 sequence and then dropping the sequence inside another ProressHQ SD. Or cutting Ex-1 directly in a DV sequence. Before exporting set all the renderingparameters to the top quality. I guess that all the rendering is done in 32b FP or so. I think FC does a very good job.

Mac OX 10.5.2-FC 6.02-QT 7.4.1
G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM-BlackMagic Extreme
PMBP 17"Core2Duo 4GbRAM-AJA ioHD
JVC DTV-17"
SONY EX-1 . SONY PD170
..and always a big mess on top of the table.


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