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Workflow: EX1 Old-School Off/Online

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Michael McIntyre
Workflow: EX1 Old-School Off/Online
on Apr 26, 2008 at 9:46:16 am

Looking for input on this silly application of older offline/online mindset to PMW-EX1 workflow. Project is spec and out-of-pocket. Stretching this offline edit over older Avids (non 24p). Notice any faults with this recipe? Other than the obvious (why? spend some money, get editors newer Avids, etc.).

Final deliverables: HDCAM 1080i / 59.94

Acquisition: PMW-EX1 1080 / 24p {HQ mode - 35 Mbps}

Media move: SxS -> laptop -> firewire drive -> desktop FCP

Pre-edit CONVERT: FCP Selects -> ADD pulldown -> Sony PDWF70 {XDCAM HD 1080 / 59.94}

DV Clones: XDCAM HD -> DV

Offline Edit DV

Online: Nitris relink to XDCAM, sweetened audio insert, colorist prettiness

OUT to - HDCAM


I realize this is completely bizarre. Even if only in theory, why wouldn't this work? Any and all input appreciated.....


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Michael McIntyre
Re: Workflow: EX1 {SEE attached pic}
on Apr 26, 2008 at 11:18:15 pm

Photobucket

Fever City Studio, LLC
1035 madison
denver 80206


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Steve Wargo
Re: Workflow: EX1 {SEE attached pic}
on Apr 27, 2008 at 4:50:44 am

Going down to DV and then trying to boost it back up to HDCAM is not a good way to go.

You don't even need a raid to edit EX-1 files. But, you do need a version of Avid that will work with the native files. The DV codec is a horrible thing. Horrible, I said. Don't go there.




Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .


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Noah Kadner
Re: Workflow: EX1 Old-School Off/Online
on Apr 27, 2008 at 6:26:07 am

Why go DV and adding pulldown etc- sounds needlessly complex. When you could just cut native super simply in 24p XDCAM EX in FCP and then bump out an uncompressed 1920x1080 QuickTime MOV all ready to push out to HDCAM or sweeten in Nitris or whatever. 35 Mbit as a format is arguably "offline" right in the camera to some folks at least in terms of storage requirements.

Noah



My FCP Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color. Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook
http://www.callboxlive.com



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Michael McIntyre
Re: Workflow: EX1 Old-School Off/Online
on Apr 27, 2008 at 6:51:25 am

As mentioned in the subject heading, this is addressing an 'old-school offline / online' scenario. I have all the gear to handle XDCAM EX - no problem. Final Cut 6.0.3 and Media Composer 2.8.3 (still haven't tested that CPR yet). However - I am not cutting this project. The lead editor is in a remote location with an older Avid. Pulldown will need to be added (at some point) to get to 1080 / 59.94 for the broadcast deliverables. A 1080/23.98p master is not an option here.

Imagine it as a tapeless workflow with the archive in the middle rather than the end of the project. Camera files get selected and dumped to XDCAM optical disks with DV clones. His DV Avid offline creates the EDL for the XDCAM -> HDCAM Nitris online.

Like I said 'totally bizarre' but could it (theoretically) work? And, no, Final Cut will not be considered for any part of this equation other than building the camera selects reel. I'd invite you to that debate with this editor but I seriously doubt you want to go down that road with this guy.

Bizarre? Yes. Feasible? Maybe....

{REVISED jpeg}

Photobucket


Fever City Studio, LLC
1035 madison
denver 80206


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Noah Kadner
Re: Workflow: EX1 Old-School Off/Online
on Apr 27, 2008 at 9:47:42 pm

Thankfully I personally will never have to jump through so many hoops just to please a set in stone editor guy. :) But on the surface I don't see anything technically unsound with your workflow. Surely though there must be a couple of dubs and steps you can remove just to get him something to edit not to mention to save a lot of extra reconform time at the end.

Noah

My FCP Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color. Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook
http://www.callboxlive.com



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Michael McIntyre
Re: Workflow: EX1 Old-School Off/Online
on Apr 27, 2008 at 11:02:11 pm

Understood. And - thanks for checking it out. Maybe the diagram exaggerates the steps too much. When all's said and done, it's not overly complex. End result will come out with archives on XDCAM HD disc with DV dubs and a HDCAM show master.

A PDW-F70 is around $700/week here versus $1,000/day for a Sony 'real' HD deck. Plus, you save money in that it can be cut on just about any ancient NLE (with no upgrade costs on his end).

Maybe I am old school but I still like working with a colorist in an expensive, pretty room and lunch catered. They've got the HD scopes and monitors. For some projects, being able to do it at home doesn't mean you should do it at home.

Fever City Studio, LLC
1035 madison
denver 80206


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Steve Wargo
Re: Workflow: EX1 Old-School Off/Online
on May 1, 2008 at 5:54:55 am

The DV part is killing us. Why can't the editor upgrade? If you're outputting to HDCAM, it's just a shame to loose half of the program quality just to get a phony HDVAM master.

Reminds me of the doodas who used to shoot in 8mm video and then transfer to Beta and call it Beta footage. Why not shoot on VHS and transfer to D-5 and call it D-5? It ain't what it ain't.




Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .


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Michael McIntyre
Re: Workflow: EX1 Old-School Off/Online
on May 1, 2008 at 7:14:08 am

Hey, Steve:

There remains some confusion on your end. The DV is only used for the offline edit. His EDL will be used for the HD online. No DV will be bumped up or up-rezzed. Hence part of the subject title: "Old-School Off/Online".

Shoot files get archived to XDCAM HD disks and timecode-slave DV dubs. He cuts the DV on his older system and spits out an EDL. I walk into a Nitris bay with the EDL and XDCAM disks and walk out with a HDCAM master. Again - we're not bumping DV up to HDCAM.

I realize this workflow is a little odd but I'm not 'one of those guys bumping up 8mm to Beta'. Give me a break. Read the thread. It's actually a workable solution that saves money.

Fever City Studio, LLC
1035 madison
denver 80206


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Annaël Beauchemin
Re: Workflow: EX1 Old-School Off/Online
on May 3, 2008 at 5:14:56 pm

Why not dub the XDCAM footage to HDCAM @23.98 and then use the HDCAM deck to add pulldown uppon capture?



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Michael McIntyre
Re: Workflow: EX1 Old-School Off/Online
on May 3, 2008 at 7:05:00 pm

I was thinking of saving a little money.... The XDCAM is already compressed in that format and a HDCAM deck is $1,000/day rather than $300/day for an XDCAM PDW-70.

Fever City Studio, LLC
1035 madison
denver 80206


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