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david soriano
considering EX-1...can i use current SD system?
on Apr 25, 2008 at 3:29:57 pm

I have been shooting for years with SD cameras(DV500, PD-170) but am now considering an HD/HDV camera. I am looking at the Z7U, EX-1 and GY200.
I am budgeting for a FCP Mac system next year but am currently editing on a Leitch Velocity SD system. If i shoot footage with an EX-1 can i downconvert it out of the camera and into the NLE as SD 16x9 footage and go from there? Or, are there any other remedies i can consider using in this regard?

As a side not, i have Adobe Master Suite CS3 installed on that Leitch system, but i can't configure PPro to run on my computer. I have firewire I/O o nthe PC. I wonder if i could set up PPro to edit my HD footage on my new camera?


thanks



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Noah Kadner
Re: considering EX-1...can i use current SD system?
on Apr 25, 2008 at 4:22:35 pm

Premiere has announced native XDCAM EX as a future update. If you go with the budget FCP system you'll be ready to edit XDCAM EX right out of the box. With the Leitch you might wind up stuck in yucky downconvert/high storage rate requirement land. With FCP it's DV-firewire easy. Even easier if you go with a MacBook Pro with its built-in ExpressCard slot which accepts the SxS cards. Sweet....

Noah

My FCP Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color. Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook
http://www.callboxlive.com



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Craig Seeman
Re: considering EX-1...can i use current SD system?
on Apr 25, 2008 at 4:24:28 pm

You really need to think about what you're doing and why to send yourself in the right direction.

Given the cameras you mention you need to decide tape vs tapeless and HDV vs XDCAM EX as well as interchangeable lens or not.

You need to think not only about your NLE software but can the CPU you have handle MPEG2 Long GOP and/or have the resources to convert it.

My own biases. I do NOT like the HDV codec at all. Tapeless can be better than tape in most situations. With EX3 announced you'll have choice between fixed (EX1) or interchangeable (EX3) lens camera.

I'm a Mac person but I certainly can understand delaying the cost of Mac plus Final Cut Studio until next year if you're going to spend your budget on a good camera and accessories this year.

Adobe is coming out (has come out) with an update for Premiere Pro CS3 to handle the XDCAM EX files directly.

Now we come to your current system. If you can get Premiere Pro to run on your system AND your system specs can handle MPEG2 Long GOP you'd be on your way.

That last part is toughest since you haven't said why you can't get PP CS3 to run nor anything about your CPU specs.

The EX downconverts to SD out of SDI or you can do it in software. The first requires SDI input to your system and the 2nd requires rendering. If you don't already have SDI in and your CPU means a slow render then you really have to consider updating your system even to handle SD . . . in which case you'd also be able to handle HD.

Since you have CS3 and seem not to have the budget to go Mac yet, you might just get a capable Windows box. BTW you might ask Adobe if they have a crossgrade program since they do have Premier Pro CS3 for Mac. This way you can get a Mac instead and use PP CS3 which you already have.





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david soriano
Re: considering EX-1...can i use current SD system?
on Apr 25, 2008 at 4:58:28 pm

thanks for responses.

I played with a iMac FCP system of a friend's of mine. They look sweet, and they said they paid less that $4000. Damn!

My current Velocity system is dual 3.0 xeons with 2G RAM.
I can capture video and sound int oPPro CS3, but i can't seem to get an output to monitor the video properly. I don't know...i haven't really played too much with it cause i am not prepared to do so.

I don't have SDI input, at least i don't think i do. This Velocity system is about 6 years old. I got the CPU upgraded a couple of years ago but kept the card and software. There is a analog break-out bundle of cables. So is it safe to assume that none of these cameras have analog outs that downconvert from HD to SD?

Maybe i should rip out the Velocity and just configure the system to run PPro, unless the two could run together. I have an internal SCSI projects/audio drive for Velocity and external SCSI video drives.



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Michael Palmer
Re: considering EX-1...can i use current SD system?
on Apr 25, 2008 at 5:04:59 pm

One thing to note is that the EX1 only down converts the SP or HDV record mode from the camera. If you record in the HQ mode the camera won't down convert.

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


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Craig Seeman
Re: considering EX-1...can i use current SD system?
on Apr 25, 2008 at 5:24:21 pm

Have you tried this? I don't see any indication why HQ to SD out of SDI wouldn't work. I'm going to be trying this soon. Going from HQ as well as "live" HQ to SDI through Telestream Pipeline (which is SD SDI only at the moment).



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Rafael Amador
Re: considering EX-1...can i use current SD system?
on Apr 26, 2008 at 4:15:08 am

[Michael Palmer] " If you record in the HQ mode the camera won't down convert. "
My EX-1 do it. From the SXS or "Alive".



Mac OX 10.5.2-FC 6.02-QT 7.4.1
G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM-BlackMagic Extreme
PMBP 17"Core2Duo 4GbRAM-AJA ioHD
JVC DTV-17"
SONY EX-1 . SONY PD170
..and always a big mess on top of the table.


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Craig Seeman
Re: considering EX-1...can i use current SD system?
on Apr 25, 2008 at 5:20:36 pm

[david soriano] "I played with a iMac FCP system of a friend's of mine. They look sweet, and they said they paid less that $4000. Damn! "

If you can swing that budget you might consider going that route now. With iMac you'd need to get an external drive for media and get a couple GB of memory. You could get a MacPro from around $2300 to $2800 but you'd want to add memory and a 2nd internal drive to that. Final Cut Studio will set you back another $1200 but that's why I mention asking Adobe about a CS3 crossgrade.


[david soriano] "My current Velocity system is dual 3.0 xeons with 2G RAM."
This might really be good enough. Sure you'd want faster but it certainly can work.

[david soriano] "This Velocity system is about 6 years old."
My bet is that's gonna be a weak link. I can't believe a system that old can handle HDV or XDCAM adequately.

[david soriano] "So is it safe to assume that none of these cameras have analog outs that downconvert from HD to SD? "
I'm not sure why you'd want to go that route. If you're not getting the best quality downconvert to SD why get HD? Personally I'd rather use HD source in an SD timeline and gain the ability to reposition shots.

[david soriano] "Maybe i should rip out the Velocity and just configure the system to run PPro, unless the two could run together. I have an internal SCSI projects/audio drive for Velocity and external SCSI video drives."

6 year old Velocity and SCSI drives? I'd say rip and bury that as top priority. Why keep that beast going? You can buy 1TB eSata drives for a little over $200. Go to PPro or FCP.

If you are a professional on any level, time is money and if you have to spend time on workarounds on a system that can't support the other technology you want to get.





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Eric Addison
Re: considering EX-1...can i use current SD system?
on Apr 25, 2008 at 8:56:53 pm

I edit with PPro CS3, and have edited some EX1 footage with the recently released 3.2 update. It works really, really well - just import the footage in and start editing.

---Eric


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Michael Slowe
Re: considering EX-1...can i use current SD system?
on Apr 26, 2008 at 9:28:02 pm

Craig, I know that this is slightly off the original topic but can I ask you whether I'm doing the best I can given my current kit. I am shooting in SP mode because my Media 100 can't support EX files. I then download my SP (HDV) material through firewire from the camera to my HDV deck (Sony M10). I then edit in full HD by taking the HDV through Convergent Design's HD-Connect. For distribution I then master to either HDCAM (expensively!) or downconvert within Media 100 to DVCAM and also encode and convert in BitVice for SD DVD's. If I shot in HQ mode I can't go into Media 100 in HD direct because the SDI from the camera has embedded audio and my Media 100 version can't take embedded audio. Why change from the Z1 to the EX1 you may ask. For the larger chips, less DOF, better low light, better focussing arrangements and (eventually) to shoot in HD. But my post route is a mess at present!

Michael Slowe


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Don Greening
Re: considering EX-1...can i use current SD system?
on Apr 26, 2008 at 9:51:46 pm

Well at least in HDV mode you can get 75 min. of footage on to a 16 gig card instead of 57 min. shooting in the HQ mode. If you're shooting mostly talking heads anyway you're probably not seeing much of a quality difference between the two modes.

- Don


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Craig Seeman
Re: considering EX-1...can i use current SD system?
on Apr 27, 2008 at 5:53:55 am

[Michael Slowe] " I am shooting in SP mode because my Media 100 can't support EX files."

[Michael Slowe] "Why change from the Z1 to the EX1 you may ask. For the larger chips, less DOF, better low light, better focussing arrangements and (eventually) to shoot in HD. But my post route is a mess at present!"

Have you asked Boris if/when Media 100 will support EX codec?
I'm not sure why your workflow is so circuitous. Can't the Media 100 take SP (HDV) from camera's firewire . . . or just copy files via USB?

Ultimately time is money and if Media 100 can't support the EX expeditiously it may be time to move on to another NLE.




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Michael Slowe
Re: considering EX-1...can i use current SD system?
on Apr 27, 2008 at 10:52:05 am

Craig, yes I asked and Boris and his team are working on it and I'm sure will crack it this year. I certainly could go direct in HDV but as many have said that is a great acquisition codec but not one for editing. I could of course cut XDCAM on FCP, Prem Pro or Avid but am a great fan of Media 100 and really want to stay with them at almost any cost.

Don, yes, the main advantage of shooting SP is the extended capacity of the cards - they are still too damn expensive - but that will change within a year or so.

Michael Slowe


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