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EX1 alongside F355 and multicam in FCP

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Rick Bronks
EX1 alongside F355 and multicam in FCP
on Apr 15, 2008 at 9:55:55 pm

Hello people.. my first post ever here.. be gentle!

We have a F355 and EX1. We tend to use the EX1 as a second camera on most shoots, and found it great.. but we would really love to use Multicam in FCP. At the highest quality settings ont he EX1 we cant use it in the same multiclip as the F355 (or andy other F3XX series camera)

So we seem to have 2 options:
1) transcode the EX1 footage in compressor to the 1440 frame size
2) shoot with the EX1 at the lower quality date rate so to drop the frame size to 1440

So i ask you good people.. what do you do? Is the quality drop on the EX1 too great to consider using on a shoot, or do we laboriously have to convert the EX1 footage to the other footage...

Seems a shame we cant record in HQ on the EX1 at 1440 frame rate.. that would solve it all. Any hint we may be able to update the EX1 firmware to allow this?

HELP!!

Rick Bronks
Forcefed Media LTD


http://www.forcefed.co.uk

---
Forcefed Media. Not bitter. Just twisted.


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Michael Slowe
Re: EX1 alongside F355 and multicam in FCP
on Apr 16, 2008 at 11:35:38 am

I have carefully compared footage shot both at HQ (full 1920) with that on SP (HDV 1440) and although there was a difference it was difficult to spot. Mind you I was viewing on the Sony PVM 14'' monitor in SD. When encoded and burnt to DVD the difference was still small. There is of course the matter of card space and SP gives you much more capacity on a shoot.

Michael Slowe


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Rick Bronks
Re: EX1 alongside F355 and multicam in FCP
on Apr 16, 2008 at 12:29:26 pm

Hiya,
Im not so concerned about space on the cards.. what is a concern is when we use the EX1 alongside the F355 and then get back to FCP and the different frame sizes dont play nicely in the multicam setting on FCP... this is what I need to assertain.. whether dropping the EX1 to SP will be that bad in a HD shoot alongside the F355, recording at full res in HQ.

Rick Bronks
Forcefed Media LTD

http://www.forcefed.co.uk

Forcefed Media. Not bitter. Just twisted.


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Noah Kadner
Re: EX1 alongside F355 and multicam in FCP
on Apr 16, 2008 at 5:13:22 pm

I'd just go down to 1440x1080 to match the F35. That would likely be your finishing format anyway. We have this problem with our training DVD's for example. We shoot footage at 1920x1080 then we have one multicamera angle that's a direct screen recording, typically at some huge monitor resolution. That needs to be re-rendered to 1920x1080 to play nice in multicam. So yeah- I'd re-export whatever is the lesser used of the two formats so you can have multicam working properly. You could do it as an overnight batch via Compressor.

Noah

My FCP Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color. Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook
http://www.callboxlive.com



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Rick Bronks
Re: EX1 alongside F355 and multicam in FCP
on Apr 17, 2008 at 6:19:13 am

hi..
what I am trying to assertain..is that I don't really want to do any transcoding because it seems to defeat the object of using the tapeles system if its going to add huge time onto a project while I downscale footage and mess in compressor..

What I really would like to do is keep thw workflow xdcam..use the ex1 in SQ mode and just pull in fotage that has matching frame sizes both at 1440..BUT the lower bit rate on the ex1 could be an issue..im trying to ask around to see ifit actually is or the difference between 25 and 35 mbps is not that noticeable

Rick Bronks
Forcefed Media LTD

http://www.forcefed.co.uk

Forcefed Media. Not bitter. Just twisted.


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Noah Kadner
Re: EX1 alongside F355 and multicam in FCP
on Apr 18, 2008 at 2:09:23 am

Like I said- Multicam doesn't work unless frame rates and formats match. Now you could always reconform the edit to the original footage once you complete your multicam edit. Consider it an offline.

Noah

My FCP Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color. Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook
http://www.callboxlive.com



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Rick Bronks
Re: EX1 alongside F355 and multicam in FCP
on Apr 20, 2008 at 9:44:13 am

hiya..yes I know about not mixing frame sizes in multicam..but I think perhaps my question isn't coming across well..

I don't want to compress/ re conform etc..because this for me ruins the beauty of tapeles workflow..so ruling that out..

all I was wondering then was if people usethe EX1 in SQ mode so that the frame size matches the bigger F3XX cameras...I know FCP can handle the different frame sizes on the timeline..but I need it the same for multicam.. SO..how have people fou.d the quality of the EX1 at 25mbps agains 35 in HQ mode?

That's all..I really want to have the 2 cameras shooting side by side and not have to spend time in post mucking about with frame size conversion. a firmware fix for the EX1 that would allow HQ recording at 1440x1080 would solve all this!

Rick Bronks
Forcefed Media LTD

http://www.forcefed.co.uk

Forcefed Media. Not bitter. Just twisted.


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James Carl
Re: EX1 alongside F355 and multicam in FCP
on Apr 27, 2008 at 3:07:37 am

I understand you don't want to compress or re-conform, It seems a shame that the EX1 won't record 1440X1080 anamorphic footage to match all the other Sony HD products.
I am curious if it will play it out through firewire or USB2? My Z1 has that feature for going out to SD with the choice of anamorphic or letterbox.

As a side note, how does the 1920x1080 EX1 footage compare to the F355 footage? I am so bummed about possible CMOS rolling shutter issues for efx work that I have held off on the EX1. I'm being told I need a CCD camera.

If you were shopping for 2 cameras from scratch would you still buy an F355 today? Or do you find the EX1 does the trick all by it's self? In other words, turning your question around, how do the cameras compare at their best settings?

Sorry for the thread hijack....


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Rick Bronks
Re: EX1 alongside F355 and multicam in FCP
on May 5, 2008 at 9:23:00 pm

Well.. apologies for taking a while to reply. I think the EX1 is indeed a great camera, but don't let some more resolution fool you into thinking that this camera is solve-all, and has some bonus points on the F355 but its an entirely different camera..

A good analogy would be buying a laptop as a 'desktop replacement' sure it may have some similar specs, but you have to sacrifice some things for others. The same is with these 2 cameras.

Our F355 has a Canon HD lens (HJ11 equivalent) and the image quality is on a level with the EX1 in many situations, but for a proper camera, with the control that any cameraperson needs, then well I don't think the EX1 is all there.. .I personally like a shoulder mounted camera.

See the main issue we have , is the problem of charging top-dollar for a shoot then rolling up with a 'small camera' the client perceives the smaller camera as not as professional, and its a lost cause trying to explain that this is state of the art technology.

Part of the reason we have a 'big camera' is because there's a lot of charlatans out there. Kids in bedrooms making short films and charging 200 quid a week for shooting is not helping us. The roll up with Z1s or EX1's and they're shooting in HD. Whether its any goo or not.. well thats another matter!

Another plus towards the F355 is the fact it records onto something physical. Yeah SxS cards are brilliant, but you're STILL left with some archiving issues, and i don't want to transfer the rushes to Hard Drives. The XDCAM disks are superb, small and sturdy. You also dont have to have the hassle of finding a backup medium.

We have the PDW-U1 drive and are eagerly awaiting the firmware update to enable writing to the disks, then we have a great backup solution. Following on from the NAB announcement about Sony opening up the XDCAM disks for any data, then i dont see another solution that can compare in terms of price for storage and reliability.

So.. to conclude.. If you are an indy film-maker, or your dont have clients that base quality on camera aesthetics, then yeah you could get away with using the EX1 (or now the EX3) as a sole camera.. but try and get jiggy with the EX series, and well.. its just close, but still not quite a cigar..



Rick Bronks
Forcefed Media LTD

http://www.forcefed.co.uk

Forcefed Media. Not bitter. Just twisted.


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