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Drop Frame Time Code issues - Mac

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Craig Seeman
Drop Frame Time Code issues - Mac
on Feb 13, 2008 at 3:40:16 pm

I'm finding Drop Frame Time Code issues on the Mac although they seem to be problems in Quicktime and/or Final Cut Pro unless they're induced by the Sony Xfer software.

When using Time of Day Code (which by nature is Drop Frame) or Preset with Drop Frame setting, the imported time code ends up being flagged as Non Drop and the numbers appear to be off.

Once converted to MOV with Sony Xfer software open a clip in Quicktime and check using lower left Time Code Display pull down.
Note it's flagged as Non Drop.
Check numbers in FCP and note they are flagged as Non Drop.
Note that there are gaps of a few frames between clips where there should be non (record run).




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john sharaf
Re: Drop Frame Time Code issues - Mac
on Feb 13, 2008 at 4:28:34 pm

Craig,

"Time Of Day" or "Freerun" code is not default drop frame. The only settings that are default are nondrop at 24p, 25p and 50i.

I know this does not explain the problems you're having with "preset with dropframe" setting so maybe someone who's more familiar with the particular software involved can further both our understandings.

JS



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Craig Seeman
Re: Drop Frame Time Code issues - Mac
on Feb 13, 2008 at 6:56:50 pm

[john sharaf] ""Time Of Day" or "Freerun" code is not default drop frame."

Maybe I should have added that I'm shooting 1080p30 Clock (Time Of Day) and I may have been wrong about Freerun though.

On Page 53 of EX1 manual
HQ1080/30P - Fixed to DF in Clock mode
HQ1080/60i - Fixed to DF in Clock mode
also
HQ720/60P (double count) - Fixed to DF in Clock mode
HQ720/30P - Fixed to DF in Clock mode

Whereas
HQ1080/24P - Fixed to NDF (Note 2: Even in Clock mode)
HQ720/24P - Fixed to NDF (Note 2: Even in Clock mode)

So in HQ 30p, 60i, 60p Clock mode (Time Of Day) is FIXED to Drop Frame. User can't change this.

I'm shooting 1080p30 so Clock mode (Time of Day) SHOULD be Drop Frame. That's not what Quicktime or Final Cut Pro is seeing.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Drop Frame Time Code issues - Mac
on Feb 14, 2008 at 1:42:50 pm

Nobody else seeing (or not seeing) this?
No one attempting to record DropFrame?

It's either a camera software/firmware issue (in which others would be seeing this)
An XDCAM transfer tool software issue (in which other Mac users would be seeing this)
A Quicktime/Final Cut Pro issue (in which other Mac users would be seeing this)

Here's an example of a 1080p30 frame with Clock DF time code. Note Quicktime shows it as NON Drop Frame.

=0


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Craig Seeman
Re: Drop Frame Time Code issues - Mac
on Feb 14, 2008 at 2:58:04 pm

This is screen grab from FCP 6.0.2.
Note in upper right it shows as Non Drop Frame.
Note in time code display in bottom center of image the time code number of 20:11:00:01, a number that should NOT exist with Drop Frame Time Code.

BTW in Quicktime the above number does go from 20:10:59:29 to 20:11:00:02 as it should but Quicktime (as I noted previously) show the NDF Flag.

What I'm seeing:
Quicktime shows correct DF numbers but flags as NDF incorrectly
FCP shows NDF numbers instead of DF and flags as NDF incorrectly
Shooting in 1080p30 should be DF.







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ken hon
Re: Drop Frame Time Code issues - Mac
on Feb 14, 2008 at 6:48:16 pm

Aloha Craig,

Well this won't be much help since I haven't examined how the EX1 shoots DF. But, about a year ago I noticed that DVDSP didn't handle DF very well and was getting strange stuff in FCP too. So while we had always shot and edited DF (a hold over I think from linear tape to tape editing on our part), we now shoot everything in NDF and we have a lot less in the way of trouble between decks, mpeg encoders, and computers. If we need DF, we convert it. Maybe some other folks have dealt with this differently.

Aloha,

Ken





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Craig Seeman
Re: Drop Frame Time Code issues - Mac
on Feb 14, 2008 at 7:10:31 pm

The thing is with Clock (Time of Day) time code, a producer or someone else can note a good take and I can find it easily when editing. Of course that's not frame accurate but it's disconcerting when I want to send the client window dubs, even more so when the time code in Quicktime does NOT match the time code in Final Cut Pro.



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ken hon
Re: Drop Frame Time Code issues - Mac
on Feb 14, 2008 at 10:18:49 pm

I totally understand. TC is messy. Our problems came when trying to do CloseCaptioning in DVDSP and finding the DF wouldn't sync correctly. Hope you find an answer.

Aloha,

Ken




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Craig Seeman
Re: Drop Frame Time Code issues - Mac
on Feb 15, 2008 at 4:54:53 pm

I called Sony Professional today and they confirmed the issue. They said Sony Japan is working on the fix although they can't confirm whether it'll be firmware, Clip Browser, Transfer tool update or a new piece of software.

I guess I'm one of the few doing windows dubs with Drop Frame time code source here.



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Chris Babbitt
Re: Drop Frame Time Code issues - Mac
on Feb 15, 2008 at 6:42:39 pm

While you were at it, Craig, did you happen to ask about the problem with duplicate clips appearing in the bin while using File Transfer inside of FCP?



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Craig Seeman
Re: Drop Frame Time Code issues - Mac
on Feb 17, 2008 at 5:15:42 pm

[Chris Babbitt] "While you were at it, Craig, did you happen to ask about the problem with duplicate clips appearing in the bin while using File Transfer inside of FCP?
"


Yes I hope they fix this too. My current workaround is to use the Transfer Tool as a separate app and then import into FCP. It seems the Transfer Tool has been forcing open FCP (but not importing) with this workaround though.

Basically Sony needs to examine whether the NDF flag on DF time code is something happening in Camera or in the Transfer Tool. Note that Quicktime just shows the Flag change and FCP further changes the time code numbers to NDF when imported.

If someone can test this on a Windows PC with Sony Vegas it might help determine whether it's an EX1 issue or a Mac Transfer Tool issue.





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ryan gander
Re: Drop Frame Time Code issues - Mac
on Sep 22, 2008 at 2:58:44 pm

We are also having issues with drop frame footage being copied to the computer. XDcam Xfer software will recognize the difference but after transfer and opened in quicktime it shows non-drop as you mentioned. In FCP we are getting sync issues where pic seems about 5 frames out with picture. We think this may have something to do with NDF clips and editing in a DF timeline. Since we are broadcast we want to work in DF but can't get the footage to read as such. Two clips shot in camera, 1 as DF and 1 as NDF both showed up in FCP as NDF.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Drop Frame Time Code issues - Mac
on Sep 22, 2008 at 3:59:20 pm

Are you using XDCAM Transfer 2.7? That seems to have fixed the DF/NDF issue but I don't doubt Quicktime itself might have issues. Are you using QT 7.5.5 and FCP 6.0.4?



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