FORUMS: list search recent posts

Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200

COW Forums : Sony XDCAM - EX & Related

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Peter Hitchcock
Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on Jan 21, 2008 at 7:32:32 pm

Could someone give me the pros and cons of the Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
I'm about to buy the Sony EX1
Thanks


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on Jan 21, 2008 at 8:04:04 pm

See this thread
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/142/856529

These are my thoughts. You might use the search function as this has been debated over and over.

SxS nearly 10x real time when using Express slot in laptop.
Record times much longer than P2. 16GB holds 50 plus minutes (and transfers in 5 given the above).
1/2 vs 1/3" sensor - greater depth of field.
1920x1080 chips and good true 1080p or 1080i quality/resolution (compared to 960x540 chips of HVX200 and up-sampling to 1080)
HD-SDI out if you want 10 bit uncompressed 4:2:2 from camera head.
Great low light performance.
Lens had very good true manual (non servo) controls.

I like XDCAM work flow - With high speed laptop transfer I can ingest and burn to disc, include Sony's free Clip Browser and deliver that disc with master video to client which they can easily view even if they don't have an NLE.

From what I've seen 4:2:0 keys/composites fine especially with progressive source. Sure 4:2:2 would be easier/better but the codecs is only as good as the camera attached to it and I much prefer the EX1 with 4:2:0 to card over the HVX 4:2:2. And with HD-SDI out of the EX1 I can still get 4:2:2 from the head.

Way back when, when I first thought about going tapeless HD I looked at the HVX200 and was extremely disappointed. The EX1 has the feature set I wanted and I'm glad I waited for such a camera to come into existence.




Return to posts index

Peter Hitchcock
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on Jan 21, 2008 at 10:02:53 pm

Thanks for taking the time to write all the info Craig.
Much apreciated
Peter



Return to posts index


Kyle Self
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on Jan 22, 2008 at 12:11:00 am

I would have to echo what Craig said. Before the 200 arrived I couldn't wait for it. I wanted one, then I got one to try and it was a huge disappointment Not only the 200 the 500 as well were way off the mark for what I needed.

I waited on the EX and after spending a few day with one, I will be ordering shortly.

Of course if yoiu go into the Panasonic forum your going to get a much different answer. As always the best thing to do is try for yourself.

K



Return to posts index

Michael Palmer
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on Jan 22, 2008 at 3:12:24 pm

One feature I do like better with the P2 system is the ability to review more than one clip without turning off the camera and then back on.

The other clarification is that the SDI out is 1080i. I was working Universal Studios last week on a Cadillac spot with the Genesis and we decided to pull out the EX1 for a little test. We recorded HD-SDI to HD Cam SR and the settings needed to be 1080i 29:97. The DIT was switching back and forth between the two and we couldn't believe our eyes. The Exmor CMOS chips have an amazing sensitivity level as I watched first hand from the best Sony CRT monitors available. There really isn't any comparison to the HVX 200 as far as image is concerned. The only bad thing would be the rolling shutter.

Michael Palmer

Good Luck
Michael Palmer


Return to posts index

Peter Hitchcock
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on Jan 22, 2008 at 8:09:15 pm

Thanks for the info Michael. I spent a couple of days at Universal myself.
Just put a deposit on the Sony EX 1 camera
What do you mean Rolling Shutter?
I noticed a bit of latency when people move is that it?
Thanks for the response much appreciated.
Peter



Return to posts index


Rich Fletcher
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on Jan 23, 2008 at 11:37:07 pm

I'm sure everyone can tell from the videos and stills that the Sony has the edge in low light. The Panny isn't a 1080p native chipset. 720pn is the best capture mode for this camera. It also looks as though the "V" setting is at 5 or 6 on the Panny giving a gamma curve that softens the picture. This will give a film look, but in a shoot-out will always lose to a "video" look on a register card or scenic shots where folks are looking for detail.

Can the EX1 do over crank or under crank? I use that for the automotive work I do. Also, I noticed that the usual "Sony blue" cast is evident in everything while the Panny is warmer.

I've owned Sony broadcast cameras since 1983, and still have a, BetacamSP, PD-170, a Canon XL2, plus one Panny HVX200. The Sonys all have a ghostly blue bias. Just switch between the videos and you'll see it in the outdoor scenes easily. Panasonic, on the other hand, has gone overly warm and I don't know why either manufacturer cannot get it right. But, it's easier to dial out the warmth on a Panny than to lose the blue on the Sony. I've tried. Dropping out the blue bias messes up the reds on Sonys.

It would be nice to know all the settings on both cameras. I cannot consider this a heads-up "shootout" without that info. I'd LOVE for the Sony to be better than the P2 due to card cost considerations alone. Then again, it's HDV long GOP 4:2:0. Getting 4:2:2 only out of the EX1 head via SDI means the camera can't be in use when downloading cards, or tying up the camera in post. But at $7-k, one could have two cameras...

Pluses and minuses, as usual. If only one of these companies could get it all together, no HDV messing up editing times, true 4:2:2 acquisition, cheap card stock, good low light performance, interchangeable lens capability, true 1080p, etc. etc. I know, I know... CineAlta F900R is the answer, but I don't have $120-k lying around to get one and outfit it properly.

Don't we just love chasing the new new thing? I've got format capabilities reaching back to Sony U-Matic-S in my office. Oh how I wish I didn't have to mortgage the house just to keep up with the ever changing format wars...

Anyway, thanks for putting up the test. More info is always good.

Cheers,
RIch

Rich


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on Jan 23, 2008 at 11:47:42 pm

You haven't read the EX1 brochure yet? You're asking VERY BASIC questions that are answered in the marketing material and in even greater detail in the manual.

Yes it does under/overcrank from 1 to 60fps in 720p and 1 to 30fps in 1080.
The camera has INCREDIBLE and OVERWHELMING "paint" controls compared to anything else in its price class.

HD-SDI can CERTAINLY be used when recording to cards. I have no idea what you mean by "downloading" cards. You take the card out of the camera and dump it while the other card continues to record.

You're asking VERY BASIC marketing questions. Go to the Sony site and read.



Return to posts index

rich Fletcher
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on Jan 24, 2008 at 12:55:30 am



Craig... Please be nicer in this forum, even with people like me who may not have read everything you have read, or believed everything they've read. Your reply was not too friendly or empathetic.

If I'm shopping for a camera, I come to Creative Cow and look for threads that evaluate said camera. I've done so since this was the World Wide Users Group for Media 100.

I don't want to know only what the manufacturer claims a camera can do. Much of it is hype. Regarding the EX1, Sony says the EX1 will do "slow and quick" motion. But how smooth is it? So I ask if it really does over-crank and under-crank. I cannot know without a test drive or by learning from people how have experience with it and with other cameras for comparison. Sony has claimed lots of things, as has Canon, JVC, Panasonic, that are near-truths. I've been in marketing for a while, and I've seen their claims for years. They're selling, and they will make claims that sell.

"Full 1080p?" What does that mean, really? Not much to me with an mpeg2 compressed HDV at 4:2:0. I wish it were real 1080 uncompressed, but it's not. All cameras are not what they claim to be. So, we ask questions and compare notes, yes? But I would appreciate us keeping it friendly, no matter how basic the question may sound.

You are obviously very happy with the EX1. Great! It's nice to find something that works for you. But, it may not work for me. Please help the rest of us to evaluate it based on merit. Again, I've been at this game since 1983. I have and will question everything, no matter how basic, before putting my money down. That's how I've managed to hang around for so long. It's a great biz, and I'm glad I can learn from persons such as you who know a lot about their gear. It's all good.

Thanks,
Rich




Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on Jan 24, 2008 at 2:11:57 am

Cow has an EXCELLENT search function. There are already scores of posts in this forum that answer your questions from people who are already using the EX1, like myself.

Feature sets are listed in the brochure. Users here can EVALUATE them (and have). If you were to ask how people feel about the implementation of a feature that's a different story.

There are people who have posted links in this forum to video shot with the EX1. Granted compressed web video has draw backs but you can certainly ask about things you see.

[rich Fletcher] ""Full 1080p?" What does that mean, really?"
Are you critiquing the brochures? Are you asking about specs? The lit says 1920x1080 chips. 1080p24, p30, i60. These are all feature lists already in the lit and even discussed in this forum.

[rich Fletcher] "Not much to me with an mpeg2 compressed HDV at 4:2:0."
Comments like this show lack of research. EX1 is XDCAM NOT HDV. Long GOP is NOT the definition of HDV.

[rich Fletcher] "But, it may not work for me."
So why not say what you need for your work.

[rich Fletcher] "Sony says the EX1 will do "slow and quick" motion. But how smooth is it? So I ask if it really does over-crank and under-crank."
People have posted links to under/over crank shots. "Smooth" is in control of the operator based on such things as shutter speed.

[rich Fletcher] " I wish it were real 1080 uncompressed, but it's not."
What cameras do you know of record uncompressed to an "internal" media of any sort especially in HD? Even DigiBeta and HDCAM have compression. Maybe a Viper to a Raid is "uncompressed"? Are you hoping for HDCAM SR at this price point?

A GOOD question MIGHT be about how XDCAM VBR 35mbps 4:2:0 compared to DVCProHD at 100mbps and 4:2:2. My answer would be a lot depends on the camera attached to it. There's certainly been plenty of discussion comparing the HVX200 to the EX1. The Cow search function would show you that.

Examine all the threads on the specifics of the EX1. Then ask questions if certain things haven't been answered or ask questions not yet asked. Nearly every thing you've asked about has already been answered.

Sorry you don't like my response but when it seems you haven't read the scores of posts by professionals who have used the camera it shows disrespect for their time.





Return to posts index

wayne dupuis
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on May 2, 2008 at 1:57:18 pm


Not going to preach to the choir here, or rant about what I've read.
I don't mean to dig, but go ahead, do a "search" for EX1 or ex-1 or HVX, and the search function of the COW returns no results. My point is that when someone new comes along looking for answers that have already been answered, show them the way; again.
When a guest in someones house it is sometimes not so easy to find where they keep the butter.
That said I too am looking at EX-1 and HVX. This year I will purchase one of these as a second to my DVX and maybe Magic Bullet for that if need be.



Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on May 2, 2008 at 2:15:51 pm

http://pairofhands.net/Ex1%20vs%20HVX%20Shootout.html



Return to posts index


wayne dupuis
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on May 2, 2008 at 8:34:33 pm

Thank you. Appreciate it.



Return to posts index

wayne dupuis
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on May 2, 2008 at 9:10:00 pm

Pair of hands is showing us
Untreated footage? That's like asking someone to look at my E3's undeveloped raw files, and expecting them to make a decision based on whether they have the time to download 175 meg file, and do the homework on it.
Oh wait a minute; it's exactly like that.
Thanks again.




Return to posts index

alex adeduwon
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on Jul 7, 2008 at 4:42:30 am

don't know why Craig is sounding rather harsh...I think the questions being asked are legitimate and do not require the kind of tone being utilized here in responding..you don't have to respond if you feel it's a waiste of your time..others like me don't feel the questions or Riche's position are useless..as a matter of fact, they are useful..so please take it easy and let's keep this forum on a friendly level that it deserves...


Return to posts index


Billy Marchese
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on Jun 26, 2008 at 5:36:53 am

I have found the EX to produce a great image until you move the camera- 1 out of every 15 frames is a full image. We used the EX as a B-cam (900R) a-cam) and set it up in 1080 24P HQ mode. When we projected the cut, all the images that had a pan or tilt employed in the shot had some distortion which upon closer inspection seems to be small dissolves in between each frame. (The EX-3 has the same issue as well.) We in turn had to dump the shots that had camera movement as they were unacceptable.

The bottom line- The EX is a great image-producing still camera- The compression that takes place in the camera to the cards is too great to give you a respectable image in the end. I would wait until Sony addresses this issue before you purchase one.

cheers


Return to posts index

Michael Palmer
Re: Sony EX1 versus the Panasonic HVX200
on Jun 26, 2008 at 2:40:11 pm

Bill,
Wouldn't it be great if you could decrease factory compression, have 4:2:2 color space and have an ALL I-Frame file to take advantage of this amazing imager?

Well now you can. Convergent Design is just a few days away from releasing the new XDR Compact Flash HD-SDI recorder That will allow the operator to reset the compression to allow for these panning shoots you have trouble with from the factory compressions. You can set the XDR in intervals from Blue Ray encoding levels (eliminating long software encode times) , all the way up to 160 Mbps 4:2:2 All I-frame recording with inexpensive solid state compact flash cards. Check it out.
http://www.convergent-design.com/downloads/Flash%20XDR%20Brochure.pdf


Good Luck
Michael Palmer


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]