FORUMS: list search recent posts

HVX200 or EX1?

COW Forums : Sony XDCAM - EX & Related

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Keith Hill
HVX200 or EX1?
on Dec 24, 2007 at 6:41:17 am

Hello,

I am considering the purchase of my next camera which must be low-cost HD capable and handheld. The HVX and new EX1 come to mind. Varicam like with the HVX with its variable frame rates and accepted DVCPro HD codec in 4:2:2 color space, or, the CineAlta named EX1 camera with the its new frame rates and 4:2:0 color space.

On the surface I tend to lean toward the 4;2;2 color space stuff. Can someone tell me what makes this new EX1 more attractive than the HVX? Also, I expect to do more keying type of work which makes me lean toward 4:2:2.

Help please!

Keith Hill
Lighted Path Films | Productions
http://www.LightedPath.biz
Dallas, TX
G5 2Ghz, OS X Tiger (v10.4.10), Final Cut Studio2, Autodesk Combustion v4.0.5| Cinema4D, Mocha DVX100A 24p Camcorder


Return to posts index

randy Strome
Re: HVX200 or EX1?
on Dec 24, 2007 at 1:28:02 pm

Great post, as I think most of us likely looked at the HVX as well.

For myself, some factors were:

P2 vs SxS
1/2 inch vs 1/3 inch sensors
1920x1080 pixel vs 960x540 pixel
CMOS vs CCD (who knows?)
Leica vs Fujinon
210,000 pixel LCD vs 921,000 pixel
tape and SD option vs pure tapeless and HD only
100 mbps 4:2:2 vs 35 mbps 4:2:0

So...for myself, lots of unknowns. I bought based on what feels like the more forward moving technology and a hope that 1/2 inch sensors will prove a winner in low light.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: HVX200 or EX1?
on Dec 24, 2007 at 3:57:57 pm

SxS nearly 10x real time when using Express slot in laptop.
Record times much longer than P2. 16GB holds 50 plus minutes (and transfers in 5 given the above).
1/2 vs 1/3" sensor - greater depth of field.
1920x1080 chips and good true 1080p or 1080i quality/resolution (compared to 960x540 chips of HVX200 and up-sampling to 1080)
HD-SDI out if you want 10 bit uncompressed 4:2:2 from camera head.
Great low light performance.
Lens had very good true manual (non servo) controls.

I like XDCAM work flow - With high speed laptop transfer I can ingest and burn to disc, include Sony's free Clip Browser and deliver that disc with master video to client which they can easily view even if they don't have an NLE.

I can change the MP4 file extension of the clips the EX1 creates, to TS and burn to Blu-ray (NO encoding needed) and the client has a disc they can play on Blu-ray player or PS3, both a lot cheaper than the typical professional deck.

From what I've seen 4:2:0 keys/composites fine especially with progressive source. Sure 4:2:2 would be easier/better but the codecs is only as good as the camera attached to it and I much prefer the EX1 with 4:2:0 to card over the HVX 4:2:2. And with HD-SDI out of the EX1 I can still get 4:2:2 from the head.

Way back when, when I first thought about going tapeless HD I looked at the HVX200 and was extremely disappointed. The EX1 has the feature set I wanted and I'm glad I waited for such a camera to come into existence.


Return to posts index


Keith Hill
Re: HVX200 or EX1?
on Dec 24, 2007 at 4:23:16 pm

Thank you Randy and Craig. Very good feedback!

I too have patiently waited for the dust to settle with regard to HD handheld and tapeless acquisition. I wondered if Sony would respond properly to what Panasonic has done with the DVX/HVX camcorders. I have the DVX100A and have been more than pleased with shooting in 24p.

Key points that you've made that grab me are:

The larger image sensor of the EX1. There are probably some differences about CCD vs CMOS that have to be understood. Here's a discussion of that very thing (Link).

4:2:2 off of the head. This to me would be very helpful in a studio environment where I have control over everything. (I'm assuming that I would be able to feed a MacBook Pro and go for it.)

I look forward to seeing someone play around with speed effects from the camera. This is one of the things l liked about the HVX which makes it a mini-Varicam (if you will).

I'm confused a bit about why the EX1 is labeled CineAlta though. I always attributed that label to HDCAM SR stuff. The EX1 is a totally different animal.


Another concern for me was the EX1 and MPEG Long GOP approach. Again, in a studio environment I can get away from that but we will see what comes from the field from those shooting if the quality is of the level that we all demand. Mpeg or not. For me, I guess that I would get it into ProRes or 10-bit Uncompressed in the end for editing and finishing.


Keith Hill
Lighted Path Films | Productions
http://www.LightedPath.biz
Dallas, TX
G5 2Ghz, OS X Tiger (v10.4.10), Final Cut Studio2, Autodesk Combustion v4.0.5| Cinema4D, Mocha DVX100A 24p Camcorder


Return to posts index


Keith Hill
Re: HVX200 or EX1?
on Dec 24, 2007 at 5:54:24 pm

Craig,

Thanks for the links. This is impressive! I love the colors and the DOF with the Letus. The speed effects are great as well. Resolution is awesome! Other than this stuff (which is a great example of what can be done), I'd like to see the camera on a some dolly moves. Comments have been made about the CMOS chips having rolling shutters and all. I admit. I don't know much about the effects of rolling shutters but it sounds like it could pose a major problem if you're moving the camera. Any comments?

Like I said though. The images from Phillip Bloom are pretty pretty good. Ultimately, it is about what I see in the end. Workflow is important too though.

Keith Hill
Lighted Path Films | Productions
http://www.LightedPath.biz
Dallas, TX
G5 2Ghz, OS X Tiger (v10.4.10), Final Cut Studio2, Autodesk Combustion v4.0.5| Cinema4D, Mocha DVX100A 24p Camcorder


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: HVX200 or EX1?
on Dec 24, 2007 at 6:11:22 pm

You're not going to see rolling shutter issues on a dolly move that's for sure.

The only case where I've heard of people seeing it at all on the EX1 is by violently shaking the camera back and forth.

This simplest (over simple) way I can describe rolling shutter issues (wobble or skewing) is that the subject moves between the start of the scan of the top of the frame and the bottom. The result is that the subject would look skewed. In the EX1, the scanning is so much faster than other CMOS cameras (Sony V1 or various consumer CMOS video cameras) that it's just not likely to happen unless there's an extreme circumstance.

I've thought an interesting way to test this would be to shoot out the window of a high speed train while passing trees or polls. In other words, the tree or poll is passing left to right (or right to left) at high speed while the image is being scanned.

Maybe the above description better exemplifies what might induce rolling shutter skewing.


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: HVX200 or EX1?
on Dec 26, 2007 at 9:50:05 am

Hi Keith,
Few months ago I was about to buy me HVX200, when I heard about the EX1.
First I thought the EX1 would be just a kind of refined HDV and not point to compare a 422, Intraframe, 100Mbps format, with a35Mbps MPG2 one. There are posts of me in the Cow where I said I couldn't believe the EX1 would bit the Panasonic. But the experience of people from this forum, that I really trust, have made me change my mind. Now when I see those pics from the EX1 I can just say: Thanks God I haven't buy the Panasonic.
I hope to get my EX1 in a couple of weeks.
Cheers and happy holidays for everybody.
Rafael

PPC G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM/BlackMagic SD/PMBP 17"Core2Duo 4GbRAM
JVC DTV-17"/FCS2/AE CS3/COMBUSTION/SHAKE


Return to posts index

Keith Hill
Re: HVX200 or EX1?
on Dec 26, 2007 at 4:10:58 pm

Thanks Rafael. I'm beginning to see myself with an EX1 on next purchase as well. I'm glad I started this thread and got feedback from those who have gotten their hands on the camera and have been blessed to have one at this early stage of the camera life.

Keith Hill
Lighted Path Films | Productions
http://www.LightedPath.biz
Dallas, TX
G5 2Ghz, OS X Tiger (v10.4.10), Final Cut Studio2, Autodesk Combustion v4.0.5| Cinema4D, Mocha DVX100A 24p Camcorder


Return to posts index


randy Strome
Re: HVX200 or EX1?
on Dec 25, 2007 at 2:38:16 am

Whew!

Just outstanding.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: HVX200 or EX1?
on Dec 24, 2007 at 5:27:26 pm

The XDCAM HD cameras are also CineAlta. CineAlta = 24fps (23.98) no pulldown. F330/335 24fps to disc. EX1 to card (both 720p24 and 1080p24).

[Keith Hill] "I'm confused a bit about why the EX1 is labeled CineAlta though. I always attributed that label to HDCAM SR stuff. The EX1 is a totally different animal. "



Return to posts index

Peter Hitchcock
Re: HVX200 or EX1?
on Jan 1, 2008 at 3:01:27 pm

Thanks guys for all the great info. Philip Boons shots are wonderful.
How does the EX1 compare with the HPX500? Which I almost bought till now.
Are there any example of keying on the web?
I plan to shoot a doco in a remote location. Whats the best way to backup the flash cards? I'll be traveling light.
Tripod recommendations and other accessories? Maybe that should all be on another thread.


Peter
Toronto


BetacamSP D30
G5 2.7


Return to posts index


wayne dupuis
Re: HVX200 or EX1?
on Apr 30, 2008 at 1:06:07 am

I too have been looking. I've been shooting with a DVX100 for quite a while now. Not a fan of LCD/Plasma/HD. I still believe we've been hoodwinked into buying a product that is more beneficial to the companies that are selling us these "cheaper to ship/get rid off" displays.
I can't wait t see what SLI?? will bring in the form of a small factor CRT. Not selling my DVX just yet, and still believe it doesn't hurt to shot list (get familiar with your shoot).
IMHO.
HD stuff looks over processed on LCD, and panning just plain looks baaaaaddddd. Swoooosh there goes the background.

Wayne Dupuis





Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]