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EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's

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randy Strome
EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 7, 2007 at 4:57:57 pm

Hi All,
Very interested in picking up a EX 1 and had a few q's. Thanks in advance for lending you expertise.

I have been out of video since I sold my first generation XL1 many years ago. Rusty at best.

In terms of 35 mm, what is the equivalance with this 14x lens? Related: How are the format changes worked? For instance are the lower res formats "crops" of the full sensor size, thereby changing field of view, or something different altogether?

Are any camera contollers available (Varizoom, etc).

Also, anything special that needs to be considered in working with Premiere CS3 on a well equipped PC?

Again, thanks for your consideration and patience.

Randy


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Don Greening
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 8, 2007 at 4:03:59 am

The lower res formats are just recorded at lower bitrates. There is no picture cropping. The term "lower resolution" is subjective I guess, because in this instance the EX lower res. is actually the 25 mbps HDV recording format, which can look pretty nice. The EX also records 1440x1080, which is what other HDV cameras, including some of the higher end XDCAMs record at. It also records 720p. This doesn't mean that the footage is cropped but instead the footage is considered to be anamorphic. It will still display properly when viewed on a widescreen monitor.

[randy Strome] "Are any camera contollers available (Varizoom, etc)."

Not yet. We're all waiting with anticipation for an announcment from Sony.

[randy Strome] "Also, anything special that needs to be considered in working with Premiere CS3 on a well equipped PC?"

Premiere Pro doesn't support the camera yet but I think the PP plugin from Cineform is worth a look.

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/162/866642#866642

Neither does Avid. Well, actually Avid does if you're only outputting an HDV signal through the iLINK port. Don't think Media100 supports the EX yet either. But Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 does and I'm assuming Sony Vegas does.

Sorry I couldn't speak to your first question.

- Don





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Randy Strome
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 8, 2007 at 4:39:37 am

Thanks for the response:

I had found this http://www.mainconcept.com/site/consumer-products-4/mpeg-pro-hd-7850/inform... but have no experience with the company or the wares.

I would rather save the $450.00 if Adobe support for the cam is looming near.

I found the following on a download spec sheet:

5.8 to 81.2 mm (equivalent to 31.4 to 439 mm on 35 mm lens)
but the sheet did not state which of the 3 resolutions that was for 1920 x 1080, 1280 x 720 or 1440 x 1080. If the latter two are crops of the 1920 x 1080 sensor, then each should have a more narrow field of view again, but it would be nice to know the 35 mm equivalents for all 3 resolutions.

Any more info on controllers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again!


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Don Greening
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 8, 2007 at 5:39:52 am

[Randy Strome] "I would rather save the $450.00 if Adobe support for the cam is looming near. "

I would suspect that a PP update will occur sooner rather than later. Not much gets past Adobe these days and with the projected impact the EX1 will have in the event video world you can bet that an update will be coming posthaste.

Nice find, BTW, on that Main Concept plugin for PP. If Adobe waits for the new Sony HDV cameras (HVR-S270 & HVR-Z7E) to hit the streets before sending out a PP update at least users will have another option in addition to Cineform.

- Don



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Randy Strome
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 9, 2007 at 3:09:43 pm

Any thoughts on the crop factor?

720 is a pretty significant crop of the full sensor size. That has the image reduced to the very center of the image circle (and the sharpest portion of the lens). So for distant subjects that might be quick moving (i.e. sports), and seeing as that true 60P is only available in that reduced resolution, it would be nice to know what the 35 mm equivalent is (or what the muliplier is for all of the resolutions). Any thoughts?


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Jeffrey B.
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 10, 2007 at 12:45:18 pm

Any thoughts on the crop factor?

My guess is that there is no crop. It resizes. It uses the full sensor but records in a 720p format.



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randy strome
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 10, 2007 at 12:56:51 pm

I wonder. That would seem tricky, as the SP mode, for instance, has a different aspect ratio, and could not really use the full width of the sensor. That alone would change the FOV. 720 and 1080 have the same aspect ratio, but I wonder how the downres is accomplished.

Thanks!


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Don Greening
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 10, 2007 at 5:25:56 pm

[randy strome] "but I wonder how the downres is accomplished."

Probably by the same method the camera uses when it down-converts to HDV on the fly via the iLINK port. This is also a setting available from the menu.

- Don



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randy strome
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 11, 2007 at 10:36:40 pm

"Probably by the same method the camera uses when it down-converts to HDV on the fly via the iLINK port. This is also a setting available from the menu. "

Thanks for the response. I inquired to Sony, but they did not know, were going to look into it, but have not responded yet. When someone gets their hands on one a quick test will tell. Compose a shot with an object at the perimeter of the frame at full res. Reshoot at the two reduced resolution options. Check the footage to see if the perimeter objects are present or have been cropped out. The viewfinder will not nescesarily tell the story, so it would need to be from the recorded footage.

I can see that 720 could posssible be a down-convert, but I could not see how 1440 could. That seems like it would certainly be a 25% crop. So at the very least it seems that the camera is offereing two diferent fields of view (straight out of the camera).


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Don Greening
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 11, 2007 at 11:27:23 pm

[randy strome] "So at the very least it seems that the camera is offereing two diferent fields of view (straight out of the camera)."

Sony has stated that the reason they wanted the EX1 to have 1440x1080 capability is to seamlessly dovetail with the rest of the present XDCAM HD product line. That way you can have F350 footage and EX1 footage in the same editing timeline and don't have to worry about conforming one to match the other.

- Don





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randy strome
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 12, 2007 at 1:11:25 am

[Don Greening] "Sony has stated that the reason they wanted the EX1 to have 1440x1080 capability is to seamlessly dovetail with the rest of the present XDCAM HD product line. That way you can have F350 footage and EX1 footage in the same editing timeline and don't have to worry about conforming one to match the other."

Hi Don, good info, thanks.

Not to belabor the point, but that would change the field of view, no? If so, I wonder if there is an adjustment made in the viewfinder for accurate framing.

Also, if the goal was to match the 350's footage, it would seem like this resolution might have been offered at the higher bit rate, like the two 16 x 9 resolutions, not 25 as offered.

Thanks again for the input.

Randy



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Don Greening
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 12, 2007 at 4:40:04 am

[randy strome] "If so, I wonder if there is an adjustment made in the viewfinder for accurate framing. "

Randy,

To be honest, I've only used the HQ 35VBR setting on mine so far and haven't had a chance to try any of the other flavors yet to see what EVF differences (if any) there are in how the image is displayed. But you're thinking a lot smarter than I am today. It sounds logical that the SQ 25CBR setting (1440x1080) would be better suited for use in a HDV timeline, rather than XDCAM. I probably mis-read Sony's press release on the topic. The other reason your logic is sound is because the EX1 can be set to down-convert to the HDV codec on the fly through the iLINK port so it makes sense to have the SQ 25CBR setting for HDV in the recording choices menu anyway.

The only other EX1 testing I did today was a low-light comparo with my PD170. I'll soon be posting those results in part 3 of my "PMW EX1 - First Impressions" series on my blog.

- Don



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randy strome
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 12, 2007 at 1:33:25 pm

Thanks again, Don.

I am oh-so-jealous that you have one to play with!

I imagine that I will be quickly behind you.

Please post or email a link to your blog.

Best,
Randy


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Don Greening
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 12, 2007 at 9:19:11 pm

Here you go:

http://blogs.creativecow.net/blog/478

I just posted part 3 a little while ago.

And then there's this that was published just today:

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/greening_don/ex1.php

Enjoy.

- Don



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randy strome
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 12, 2007 at 10:37:09 pm

Geez Don,
Enjoy I did. Tell us about those frame grabs. Any post processing or are those just stills exported from the timeline. Obviously no need to deinterlace with 30P. Wow, this is Rip Van Winkle-like a wake up call for me. The quality diff between now and 10 years ago is mind blowing.


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Don Greening
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 13, 2007 at 1:14:44 am

[randy strome] "Any post processing or are those just stills exported from the timeline. "

They're unaltered frame grabs @ 1920x1080. All I did was export from the FCP timeline using Quicktime Conversion>Still Image>JPEG @ best quality. The colours on our plasma of the same footage look more saturated than the actual grabs. I never noticed that until afterwards.

- Don



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randy strome
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 12, 2007 at 4:29:51 pm

Hi Don,
One other thing, do you have an 8 pin controller you could plug in to test functionality?

Randy


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Don Greening
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 12, 2007 at 9:14:27 pm

Nope, sorry. I haven't bought anything yet, probably not until the new year. I'm waiting to see what Sony itself comes out with before I spend the cash.

- Don


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Steve Wargo
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 8, 2007 at 6:45:55 am

lens control http://www.libec.co.jp/eng/index.html '> http://www.libec.co.jp/eng/index.html look for "other accessory" on the right side of the page.


Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
Sony EX-1 on the way.


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Steve Wargo
This one too
on Dec 8, 2007 at 7:25:09 am

the EX1 has a professional 8 pin connector and this unit should work also. Of course, until it is tested and confirmed as functional, we're only guessing.

I will have a unit from BandPro on the 13th for a weekend of testing.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
Sony EX-1 on the way.


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Steve Wargo
Damn
on Dec 8, 2007 at 7:26:04 am

http://www.16x9inc.com/news/nr/0706-nr-be-zoe-eng.html

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
Sony EX-1 on the way.


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Don Greening
Re: Damn
on Dec 8, 2007 at 7:33:45 am

Thanks Steve. I had completely forgotten that you'd posted that Libec link in another thread a few days ago. The Zoe controller does sound somewhat more robust than the Libec piece.

- Don


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Randy Strome
Re: This one too
on Dec 8, 2007 at 1:44:23 pm

Thanks again guys,

Steve, I had not seen mention of an 8 pin connector. Where did you find that info (and where is the port located)?

If that is the case, then it would seem that all of the 8 pin controllers should work.


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randy Strome
Re: This one too
on Dec 8, 2007 at 3:40:46 pm

...Also no push auto focus or manual focus on any of these. I really enjoyed that on my old varizoom through Lanc. Is this not possible for this cam?


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randy Strome
Re: This one too
on Dec 8, 2007 at 3:41:17 pm

...Also no push auto focus or manual focus on any of these. I really enjoyed that on my old varizoom through Lanc. Is this not possible for this cam?


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Randy Strome
Re: This one too
on Dec 8, 2007 at 3:42:05 pm

...Also no push auto focus or manual focus on any of these. I really enjoyed that on my old varizoom through Lanc. Is this not possible for this cam?


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Steve Wargo
Re: This one too
on Dec 8, 2007 at 11:59:03 pm

Try this link:

http://www.simonwyndham.co.uk/xdcam-pmw-ex1.html

Look at the tenth photo from the top. And yes, any 8 pin connector should work (maybe). I don't really see room for a threaded rind. Write to Simon and ask him what he thinks.





Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
Sony EX-1 on the way.


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Steve Wargo
Re: This one too
on Dec 9, 2007 at 5:11:22 am

[Steve Wargo] " don't really see room for a threaded rind." If only I knew what a "rind" is. I wonder if it might be something like a "ring".






Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
Sony EX-1 on the way.


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Ray Palmer
Re: This one too
on Dec 8, 2007 at 9:45:16 pm

Call me when it comes in. I want to see it too.
Ray
602-809-1471

Ray Palmer, Engineer
Salt River Project
Phoenix, AZ
602-236-8224 office
There are three types of people in this world, those that can count and those that can't.


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Don Greening
Re: EX 1 lens 35 mm equivalent and control q's
on Dec 23, 2007 at 6:19:38 pm

[randy Strome] "In terms of 35 mm, what is the equivalance with this 14x lens?"

Found something for you. The 14x lens zoom range is 5.8 - 81.2 mm, which is about 31 - 440 mm in 35 mm still camera terms.

- Don



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