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Green Screen and EX-1

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Scott Strimple
Green Screen and EX-1
on Nov 22, 2007 at 9:18:31 pm

OK... too many (mostly panasonic and not xdcam) folks telling me I should not get the EX1 or any 4:2:0 XDCAM camera because of our plans to shoot in front of a green screen. Can someone tell me what the real skinny is please. We are gonna make the move into HD and were expecting to do it with the EX1 and down the road a 350 or 355. I would like to hear from those of you who have actually done green screen work with the XDCAM who can tell me that it works fine. Is there a reason here to NOT layout the $$ for the EX1 and rather go with a camera that has 4:2:2 like the HVX200?

Thanks

Scott

FCP Studio2 Caldigit HD Pro DSR390, PD170,AJA LA


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FinFJR
Re: Green Screen and EX-1
on Nov 22, 2007 at 10:51:29 pm

If you work in a studio environment and can import straight to editstation, capture your material through HD SDI (the material will be a lot better.) It will be 4:2:2. And you can capture any codec etc. depending on your machinery.

But to shoot to the card it will be 4:2:0 long gop. If i'm not right, please correct me someone?

I haven't gotten my camera yet, but for greenscreen i'll be using iOHD.



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Don Greening
Re: Green Screen and EX-1
on Nov 23, 2007 at 3:38:57 am

[FinFJR] "But to shoot to the card it will be 4:2:0 long gop. If i'm not right, please correct me someone?"

You are correct.

[FinFJR] " haven't gotten my camera yet, but for greenscreen i'll be using iOHD."

You have chosen wisely :) Working in Pro Res 422 HQ would definitely by the way to go for this type of work.

For Scott: Creative Cow's very own Gary Adcock did some testing of the EX1 shooting green screen and stated he got consistent results. I believe he was using 4:2:2 from the HD SDI port.

- Don





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heath firestone
Re: Green Screen and EX-1
on Nov 26, 2007 at 8:11:43 pm

There are a couple of other things to keep in mind. For one, Sony records at 1440X1080 vs. Panasonic's 1280X1080 solution for 1080, and 960X720 for 720.

If you do a live capture off of HDSDI, your can actually capture 4:4:4 if you capture uncompressed. I generally capture my greenscreen footage using my HDCAM camera, captured live to one of my Axios, which I can use MPEG2 4:2:2 at true 1920X1080, which I generally capture to a 150Mbps stream.

This gives me results I can work with.

Hope this helps,

Heath


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Craig Seeman
Re: Green Screen and EX-1
on Nov 27, 2007 at 2:49:50 pm

[heath firestone] "ony records at 1440X1080"

The EX1 records at 1920x1080.


[heath firestone] "o a live capture off of HDSDI, your can actually capture 4:4:4 if you capture uncompressed"

The EX1 HD-SDI output is 4:2:2 uncompressed (either 10 bit or 8 bit with 2 "dummy" bits - that's being debated by some).


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Heath Firestone
Re: Green Screen and EX-1
on Nov 27, 2007 at 5:54:01 pm

[Craig Seeman]The EX1 records at 1920x1080.

I stand corrected. 1440X1080 is for standard XDCAM, I was unaware the EX1 recorded to 1920X1080.


[Craig Seeman]The EX1 HD-SDI output is 4:2:2 uncompressed (either 10 bit or 8 bit with 2 "dummy" bits - that's being debated by some).

Once again, you are correct. That'll teach me not to double check before posting.



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Craig Herron
Re: Green Screen and EX-1
on May 27, 2008 at 10:01:00 pm

I'm doing greenscreen on a music video shot with the Sony EX-1.

The shoot was to the card and then it was brought into FCP for editing. I am working with the FCP edit footage.

The key seems to work pretty well and takes out the background but even with minimal settings I am getting horrible noise in the dark areas of the picture. Black sofa, coat, brown skin etc. The original footage and FCP edit is quite clear with no noise. I have keyed out HDV and MiniDV footage with decent results but I have never seen this noise problem. We are using Keylight in AE but also tried Primatte in Motion with the same results. Running out of ideas and need help.

Thanks
Craig Herron
http://www.herrondesigns.com



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Richard DuCasse
Re: Green Screen and EX-1
on Sep 6, 2010 at 4:22:53 pm

Me too. Exact same problem. Did you ever hear of a solution, after all this time?



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Craig Seeman
Re: Green Screen and EX-1
on Sep 6, 2010 at 4:37:36 pm

Without settings no one can help. Many people have no such issues so it's likely your camera settings but you offer none so no one can make suggestions to improve.

Shoot progressive. Make sure subject is properly lit. Picture Profile settings can have major impact. If you're getting noise in the blacks then pull them down.



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Craig Herron
Re: Green Screen and EX-1
on Sep 6, 2010 at 6:17:30 pm

We overlit the greensceen. Footage we shot later was better. I recently had good luck with footage shot with a canon 5D. The trick was to bring the footage into compressor and make it pro res 422. Looked great after that and keyed very well Im moving to the canon T2i as soon as I can find one

Craig Herron


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Craig Seeman
Re: Green Screen and EX-1
on Sep 6, 2010 at 6:29:06 pm

[Craig Herron] "We overlit the greensceen."

Do you know how to test for this? It's an important skill. People confuse even lighting for hot lighting. Saturation can be more important than luminance. Using zebras can tell you if the lighting is even as a check for example.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Green Screen and EX-1
on Nov 29, 2007 at 1:46:01 am

Keep in mind there are many advantages to the EX1 over the HVX. I suspect if you were recording DVCPro50 4:2:2 in the field for Green screen the HVX would have an advantage.

The EX1 is 4:2:2 Uncompressed both Hi Def and Standard Def out of HD-SDI from the camera head.

I do think 4:2:0 (especially progressive) will key well. Many good keyers today will have "chroma smoothing" filters to help it. It may not be "pushed" as far as 4:2:2 though.


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Don Greening
Re: Green Screen and EX-1
on Nov 29, 2007 at 10:30:09 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I do think 4:2:0 (especially progressive) will key well."

Like my fellow Canadian is oft quoted as saying: "Not all compression is bad" :)

- Don



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