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XDcamHD 350

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Alan Lacey
XDcamHD 350
on Oct 28, 2006 at 4:28:01 pm

I know it's got all those fancy framing rates, but can it do simple stop-frame animation?

Thanks

Alan in PAL land


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Nate Weaver
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 29, 2006 at 3:48:45 am

Not really. But it will do intervals from 1 frame per second to 1 frame every hour or day, and a lot in between.


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Alan Lacey
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 29, 2006 at 7:21:40 am

Thanks Nate, but it sort of buggers up the stop frame workflow doesn't it?

Shame, after months of research and not one single thing against this being the PERFECT camera for my needs and workflow, to give it one black ball. It'll definitely not stop me buying it though.

Alan


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Carroll Lam
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 29, 2006 at 4:35:32 pm

Actually you can shoot one frame at a time on an abitrary schedule with the F330/F350.

Just set the interval recording time to something more than a second or so, start the recording process and after the frame is recorded stop the recording. Repeat this process whenever a new frame recording is desired.

Carroll Lam


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Alan Lacey
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 29, 2006 at 7:26:34 pm

Thanks Carroll I was hoping there would be a way around this. Obviously it would be better to do this via the remote control would this be possible? And just how fiddly will this process be - literally just a start recording push, followed by a stop one?

BTW in my recent XDcam researches I've seen your name pop up a lot - well done.

Alan in PALland


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Carroll Lam
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 29, 2006 at 7:41:50 pm

>Obviously it would be better to do this via the remote control would this be possible? <

Yep. The F330/F350 remote control can stop and start the recording process.

Thanks for the nice words!

Carroll Lam


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Nate Weaver
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 30, 2006 at 2:17:44 am

I just tried that method Carroll, trying to get three frames, and I wound up getting 3 two second clips on disc. I had the camera set to 1 frame every 10 seconds.

The shortest a clip can be due to GOP issues is 2 seconds.

The 3 clips I got had normal motion in them, as if interval recording was off. I have to say I was skeptical of that method, because the manual states the shortest clip that can be written to disc is 2 seconds.

Perhaps if you did this for 48 frames, you could get a single clip...I don't know.


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Carroll Lam
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 30, 2006 at 5:50:19 pm

>the manual states the shortest clip that can be written to disc is 2 seconds.<

Well, of course you are correct, Nate. That minimum clip time is something that I had forgotten.

So, I guess the options for stop frame animation would be to either set the interval time to a value large enough that allows one to change the animation setup between frame collections (and collect at least 2 seconds of runtime frames per record period, or run the camera's video output into a pc and use the pc to grab frames when desired.

Carroll Lam


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Alan Lacey
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 30, 2006 at 6:20:43 pm

Oh yes I'd forgotten the gop. Blast it, sort of spoils the whole process doesn't it?

What about in DVcam mode (SD)? I guess the problem shouldn't affect that.

Alan


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Alan Lacey
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 30, 2006 at 6:23:26 pm

So when the manual says 'one frame every hour' it really means 'one two second clip every hour'? I can't see this working for time lapse very well - or even at all!!!

Alan


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Nate Weaver
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 30, 2006 at 8:38:00 pm

[Alan Lacey] "So when the manual says 'one frame every hour' it really means 'one two second clip every hour'? I can't see this working for time lapse very well"

No, if you let the time-lapse run as designed, you get exactly what you'd expect. It's just that if you keep hitting the record button, you interrupt the usual process and you get individual clips, each 2 seconds long no matter what.

I've done timelapses of clouds and cars at 1 frame per second, and one frame every 4 seconds. It works beautifully and easily.

Also, be aware that under and overcranking doesn't work in DVCAM mode. I don't recall if timelapse works in DV either, I'm guessing it does not. In those cases you'd have to shoot HD and let the camera downconvert via firewire for you or downconvert in your NLE


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Dave Jenkins
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 31, 2006 at 4:54:00 am

Great info Nate! One little thing the camera can't down convert via firewire can it? I haven't been able to make that happen.

Dave


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Carroll Lam
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 31, 2006 at 5:56:55 pm

>I haven't been able to make that happen.<

Do you have "i.Link MODE" (page O10 OUTPUT) set to "AV/C", Dave?

Carroll Lam


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Carroll Lam
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 31, 2006 at 2:01:46 am

As Nate pointed out, the minimum 2-sec clip is only created if you stop the interval recording process before enough frames to create a 2-sec runtime are collected.

For example, if you are operating in the 24p mode and start an interval recording process and collect only 24 frames and then stop the recording, a 2-second clip will be recorded that when played will display the 24 interval frames and then show 24 realtime frames.

Carroll Lam


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Alan Lacey
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 31, 2006 at 11:53:56 am

Now all is clear -I think, thanks guys.

So going back to my original question, I'll likely be able to force a stop frame animation sequence providing I collect enough frames to satisfy the gop thing. Blimey it gets complicated doesn't it? Hmmm no powering down the unit in this process then.

Also too I guess I must make sure that after the animation sequence I expose at least another 12 frames to ensure that the gop is complete.

Any answers to the question of whether the P350 will down convert and output to firewire? I must admit that I'd rather taken it for granted that it would do that.

Thanks

Alan


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Nate Weaver
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 31, 2006 at 5:51:40 pm

Alan, the camera does downconvert to a DV stream on the firewire port if you want it to. You choose whether you want the firewire port to be in AV/C mode (sending a DV stream out), or FAM mode, where you plug the cam into a computer and it shows up as a mass storage device.

In AV/C mode you can also capture HD like it was a DV camera, with deck control.

I've ALSO shot HD, and captured via HD-SDI into my Decklink card, while using the FW port in DV mode. This gave me deck control and timecode. Follow? I had to do this to get some 30P @25mbit into my computer (the one mode that's not supported on the Mac).

I think you're going to be out of luck on your animation desires...I'm racking my brain and I can't think of a way you're going to be able to do this unless you choose a fixed interval and use time lapse.

For the price of a Sony 90wh lithium battery you can buy a Canon Digital Rebel and get a superior animation camera!


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Alan Lacey
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Nov 1, 2006 at 6:42:04 pm

thanks guys that's clear now.

I'll check out the Canon Digital Rebel Nate.

Alan


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Carroll Lam
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Oct 31, 2006 at 5:53:13 pm

>I'll likely be able to force a stop frame animation sequence providing I collect enough frames to satisfy the gop thing. Blimey it gets complicated doesn't it? Hmmm no powering down the unit in this process then.<

Although it may be related to GOP functioning, the situation is really determined by collecting, for the frame rate mode in use, collecting enough frames before stopping the interval recording process to complete 2 seconds of realtime playback.

>Also too I guess I must make sure that after the animation sequence I expose at least another 12 frames to ensure that the gop is complete.<

No, that's not true. For example, if you're in the 24p mode you just need to capture 48 frames and that will fill up the 2-sec clip time precisely. If you're in the 60i mode you would need to collect a minimum of 60 frames.

>Any answers to the question of whether the P350 will down convert and output to firewire?<

The F330/F350 will output downconverted DV-format video via Firewire in both realtime and from disk playback.

Carroll Lam


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Nigel Cooper
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Nov 5, 2006 at 8:16:27 pm

In Timelapse mode every single frame is an I-frame and GoPs don't come into it. In Timelapse it also goes into standby mode using hardly any power.

You can downconvert via FireWire. Just set it in menus to AV/C mode, which is should be in by default.






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Alan Lacey
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Nov 6, 2006 at 4:46:41 pm

Surely gops have got to come into it at some stage Nigel, the output format is mpeg2.

Alan


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Nigel Cooper
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Nov 6, 2006 at 9:51:37 pm

yes, just not at the recording stage; don't ask me how it works after this.



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Tip McPartland
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Nov 7, 2006 at 10:51:17 pm

I would think that the single frame is recorded as a 12 frame GOP, but since there is no difference between it and the following eleven frames there is no delta information, so all the bandwidth can go to the one frame, making it effectively intraframe.

Tip


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Alan Lacey
Re: XDcamHD 350
on Nov 8, 2006 at 5:59:55 pm

arrrh thats it

alan


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