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XDcam HD frame rate conundrum for multi format output

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David Slater
XDcam HD frame rate conundrum for multi format output
on Apr 16, 2006 at 4:23:50 am

Hey all
I am going to be editing a feature, starting in May.
the intended distribution for it is for SD TV (BOTH NTSC and PAL), SD DVD, FILM (very possibly) HD DVD/BluRay (sorta possible later on)
Shooting in 1080i with the F350
using FCP 5.0.4 with a Decklink Multibridge extreme

soo
on to the fun stuff
never used XDCAM HD before (assuming HD SDI capture from either the camera or deck)
never done somthing going to multiple formats for output
so the DOP (who hasn't used XDCAM before) asked what frame rate would be the easiest for me to deal with while still maintaining that coveted film look)

anyone have any idea it would be great
THANKS



DAVE at Movies Rock in Toronto


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Steve Wargo
Re: XDcam HD frame rate conundrum for multi format output
on Apr 16, 2006 at 5:20:56 am

23.98 would be the frame rate to use if you wish to have the feel of film. You will create a 23.98 sequence in FCP and roll of a 23.98 master to tape first. You can also render your timeline to include pulldown.

If you plane to go to SD also, you need to decide right now if you will do a center cut of the 16x9 frame or use letterbox style.

This is a rather long conversation to have and I would be happy to go over it with you at another time.

We are in the final touches of a feature film we shot on the F-900 and will soon be doing our SD downconverts and everything has been very smooth up to now.

Record your external audio at 29.97.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona

It's a dry heat!


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David Slater
Re: XDcam HD frame rate conundrum for multi format output
on Apr 16, 2006 at 5:51:14 am

ok hmmm isn't it 60i off the HD SDI if you shot in 23.98 (that is what a Sony rep said at a seminar I went to last week about the F350, that the SDI outputs are 60i)

ok so if the camera or deck can output the 23.98 out the HD SDI they I can capture the video via the decklink to 23.98
hmmm well that is better

I THINK they producer & director will just want it letter boxed (I HOPE)

uhhh eeek there is no money for sync sound we are going right into the camera from the mixer


Hey you going to NAB? we can chat a little more then if that would be better (or you can shoot me an email)



DAVE at Movies Rock in Toronto


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Steve Wargo
Re: XDcam HD frame rate conundrum for multi format output
on Apr 16, 2006 at 6:11:28 am

[David Slater] "ok hmmm isn't it 60i off the HD SDI if you shot in 23.98"


Hmmmm This will need to be addressed. I will be at NAB from Sunday till Thursday. We are looking at the XD-HD process and audio gear.

Using the camera for sound is foolproof. It does work. I need to look at some more specs. And, I believe the link is directly over to the right somewhere.

steve@az24P.com



Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona

It's a dry heat!


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David Slater
Re: XDcam HD frame rate conundrum for multi format output
on Apr 16, 2006 at 6:55:49 am

cool if you are going NAB it would be great to meet ya (you going to the cow leader breakfast?)
as for the 60i over SDI that is what the rep said
but he was also saying a lot of other stuff that didn't make sense as well (don't know if he did demos all the time but he didn't know much it seemed)

it is hard to find the manual online right now or find people who know a fair bit about the camera as it is such a new system
the Sony web site doesn't have much info about posting it on other systems then there own or about the frame rate's and such

ARRRGGG love and hate new formats

DAVE at Movies Rock in Toronto


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cowcowcowcowcow
Steve Wargo
Re: XDcam HD frame rate conundrum for multi format output
on Apr 16, 2006 at 8:36:48 am

Yep. I will be at the breakfast.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona

It's a dry heat!


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Redflag
Re: XDcam HD frame rate conundrum for multi format output
on Apr 17, 2006 at 12:01:03 pm

Just a question along the same line.So the camera would shoot at 24p.I have the same thing been asked to shoot 23.98 but told this is 24p? in the camera. Is there a setting on the Cine Alta for 23.98,(dont think so)or is it better to shoot 24p,the 23.98 is done in post?

thanks



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David Slater
Re: XDcam HD frame rate conundrum for multi format output
on Apr 18, 2006 at 1:28:45 pm

OK change in plans

audio guy wants to shoot with a 744T NOT connected to the camera at all

SOOO
if we are shooting in 23.98 would it not be better from the audio to be recorded in that frame rate as well?

the 744T has adjustable frame rate's from 23.976, 24, 25, 29.97DF, 29.97ND, 30DF, 30ND;

this is so confusing now



DAVE at Movies Rock in Toronto


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Steve Wargo
Here it is
on Apr 18, 2006 at 7:49:31 pm

Sony CineAlta cameras can shoot in 23.98

Before you record your audio, talk to someone who has gone through the process. We shot three features last year and on one of them, the director insisted that the audio be recorded in 23.98 to match the video. I have "heard" that they are having sync issues.

Please read the following before having that discussion. This was lifted directy from Location Sound's website. You will find the same info on Deneke's website. They make the time code slates.

Read it carefully. Contact the pros who have done this. Our two features that were shot at 23.98 and audio recorded on a 744 (Rented from Location Sound)are perfectly in sync.

If possible, please rent or buy from Location Sound. They're great!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


How To Stay In Sync With HD Cameras

Everyday, my phone rings and the first words I hear are,


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Timothy Duncan
Re: Here it is
on Apr 21, 2006 at 1:07:36 pm

We have already taken delivery on our XDCAM HD F350 and the F70 deck. We had the opportunity 6 weeks back to get our hands on a prototype of the camera and deck to test in order to make the decision to purchase.

The Deck can output via HD-SDI 60i or 23.98 of footage shot at 23.98. If you drop two channels of audio, you can also get a bit more video recorded per disc. (Normal recording is 4 channels of 48K audio).

We have shot quite a bit with the F900 and also the Varicam, and I have to say that ALL our HD shooting will be done with the F350 from now on. It is just so clean, espeically in the blacks, and the setup menus are just like the F900.

td



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