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HERE we go again: 25p vs 50i Headaches with Decklink HD Extreme + CS6

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ninetto makavejev
HERE we go again: 25p vs 50i Headaches with Decklink HD Extreme + CS6
on Mar 14, 2013 at 8:28:34 pm

Hello. Well this one might seem familiar to some, I have posted in the past about the problem of getting 25p or 25PsF material to work with Prem.Pro and Decklink HD Extreme card. The system is a brand-new windows machine (X79 chipset) with lots of RAM.

The advice I got from many was to upgrade to CS6 since I had been using CS 5.5 up until now. Before spending money on an CS6-upgrade only to be faced with the same old insane 25p work-arounds for Decklink (edit in a 50i timeline, then just before final export drop sequence into 25p timeline) I have installed the CS6 trial and re-installed the windows 9.7 drivers for Decklink HD Extreme.

So I don't know who is to blame, Adobe or Blackmagic, but it is the same sad old story. Material shot as AVC-Intra 1080p will not play back in a 25p sequence , which is what Premiere wants to set, with the Decklink-player... only 1080i (50i) works for Blackmagic. Which Premiere complains about "not being the native setting for the codec".

Or does someone have the magic potion to get this 25p to work????


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Joel Arvidsson
Re: HERE we go again: 25p vs 50i Headaches with Decklink HD Extreme + CS6
on Mar 14, 2013 at 8:51:26 pm

If you have dropbox you could share a link that I could download and se if I get the same problem.

joelarvidsson@gmail.com


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ninetto makavejev
Re: HERE we go again: 25p vs 50i Headaches with Decklink HD Extreme + CS6
on Mar 14, 2013 at 9:11:55 pm

Thanks for the response.
But the material is nothing special: standard AVC-Intra (AVC-100 1080p) from a Panasonic HPX-250. So it certainly is not the material causing the problem.

For a long time I suspected my monitor an Eizo HD2441w was not capable of playing 1080p, but that is not the case. It can. In fact when using a Prem.Pro sequence, and setting the player preference as "ADOBE" (not Blackmagic) I get 25p output from Adobe on the Eizo monitor, it is just never as sharp/clear as the Blackmagic, which I can only get to function when setting a "wrong" sequence with "1080i (50i)".

I am certain the Blackmagic card/driver is to blame, or some kind of software conflict. I just had hoped it would "just work" as some people had reported, when upgrading to CS6.

I would love to hear of any Decklink owners who can play 1080p in CS6, using Blackmagic as the default player in Premiere. Then I would know I have some other kind of software conflict/wrong drivers.


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Joel Arvidsson
Re: HERE we go again: 25p vs 50i Headaches with Decklink HD Extreme + CS6
on Mar 14, 2013 at 9:51:58 pm

What do you mean be not playing back. Does it playback on your computer screen but no picture at you television? Or does it just not playback on either?

joelarvidsson@gmail.com


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ninetto makavejev
Re: HERE we go again: 25p vs 50i Headaches with Decklink HD Extreme + CS6
on Mar 14, 2013 at 10:55:35 pm

Quite simple: Premiere can output 25p to the Eizo HD Monitor, playing back the timeline thru the CUDA-assisted native graphic card, using a premiere 1080p preset for the timeline.

But the reason for having a Blackmagic card is so you have more choice and better quality for your output: SDI, HDMI, etc.

Premiere will not playback/pass-thru 25p (1080p) on a sequence with this setting (1080p) if the Blackmagic Player (card) is chosen for output. Nada. This is the problem. The sequence can only be viewed in the Premiere interface window, not on the dedicated monitor.

So: has anyone seen a 1080p (25p) sequence that plays back with Premiere CS6 and Blackmagic as the player/output? It makes no difference if I pick one of the BM-presets or the Premiere standard pre-set for 1080p.


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Joel Arvidsson
Re: HERE we go again: 25p vs 50i Headaches with Decklink HD Extreme + CS6
on Mar 15, 2013 at 6:10:00 am

I have no problem with playing back 25p 1080. Have no avchd clips to try or atleast not easy accessible. I drop the clip to the the new sequence buttom to get the clip settings autogenereted for the sequence. Just got my decklink card to work yesterday so i will double check every today. Did playback some 24p clips before 25p.

joelarvidsson@gmail.com


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Simon Blackledge
Re: HERE we go again: 25p vs 50i Headaches with Decklink HD Extreme + CS6
on Mar 15, 2013 at 8:37:12 am

Our old Decklink HD Extreme only supported 1080 50i out. Playing 25p material out to it and having whatever app set to 25p timeline was fine. ie Resolve.

Newer cards - plus our ultra studio 3D and the Mini thinderbolt out all have more output options now

inc 25p or 25psf.

s



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ninetto makavejev
Re: HERE we go again: 25p vs 50i Headaches with Decklink HD Extreme + CS6
on Mar 15, 2013 at 9:42:36 am

Thanks for the response Simon, I really want to get to the bottom of this. Can you please confirm that you are using "Blackmagic Playback" in the PREFERENCES/PLAYBACK settings, and that we are talking about a Decklink HD card?
Which drivers are you using for your Decklink?

I too tried letting Premiere simply generate the sequence settings automatically, Decklink will not play that sequence. Only if a set a 50i sequence it will play back as expected via Decklink, but then the sequence settings are wrong for further editing of progresssive AVC-Intra (interlaced/export, etc).

This was a confirmed problem in CS5 but I thought it had been solved in CS6.
It could very well be a software conflict specific to my system.
Thanks.


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ninetto makavejev
Re: HERE we go again: 25p vs 50i Headaches with Decklink HD Extreme + CS6
on Mar 15, 2013 at 9:46:20 am

sorry, the above post was intended for Joel, not Simon... but Simon's post has really helped me further. I truly suspect that my card, "Decklink HD Extreme" cannot play 25p. I would love if someone from Blackmagic would confirm this, as the documentation for this was and is severely lacking.


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Joel Arvidsson
Re: HERE we go again: 25p vs 50i Headaches with Decklink HD Extreme + CS6
on Mar 15, 2013 at 4:17:54 pm

Hi, I just took a 25 file and let it create a sequence with a 25p timebase. It plays back fine.

I have a decklink extreme 4k, but I would guess its more or less the same thing while playback 1080p.

joelarvidsson@gmail.com


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ninetto makavejev
Re: HERE we go again: 25p vs 50i Headaches with Decklink HD Extreme + CS6
on Mar 15, 2013 at 5:55:21 pm

Thanks for the info, Joel. You have a much newer card and I am 99.9% sure now that the older cards, like my Decklink HD (2K)Extreme simply cannot output 25p. None of the 25p presets in CS6 work with this card, contrary to what I had read elsewhere.

Another strange behavior is that the new preference settings in Premiere CS6 allowing you to pass-thru a sequence to the BMD Decklink even if it is not a BMD preset has no effect. The only workaround is as before: setting up an "incorrect" BMD 50i sequence, do all editing with that, and before outputting copy/paste everything into a correct sequence. Darn.

I would be very over-joyed to have someone contradict me, and say they have an older Decklink card playing ball with CS6.

I guess BMD, like so many other manufacturers, just gives up on "old" hardware: no card-specific update on firmware/software and no word that this card cannot handle 25p. So the vicious circle of buying new expensive hardware/software every 2-3 years continues... uggghhh!


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Joel Arvidsson
Re: HERE we go again: 25p vs 50i Headaches with Decklink HD Extreme + CS6
on Mar 15, 2013 at 7:35:39 pm

I know the feeling. Was disappointed when aja left "kona lhe" behind in cs5.5. Its nothing wrong with that card but they stopped support it in cs6.

joelarvidsson@gmail.com


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ninetto makavejev
Re: HERE we go again: 25p vs 50i Headaches with Decklink HD Extreme + CS6
on Mar 17, 2013 at 9:04:56 pm

Wierd thing though, or proof how evil/lazy manufacturers are regarding hardware support: using the very same "old" Decklink HD Extreme, RESOLVE has no problem displaying 25p! It just works. So it really isn't "hardware" at all, it is just pure insanity that the BMD XML-presets/driver cannot be configured to display 25p within Premiere for this card!!! (yes I know that is a lot of exclamation points)

On another thread, someone had luck downgrading the driver to facilitate playback, I will try that when I finish current project.

best regards, n.m.


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