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Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.

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Brandon Kraemer
Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Oct 17, 2012 at 6:12:12 pm

Note: I have submitted this to tech-support but so far I have heard nothing other than it's a throughput issue (hard drives) which it is almost certainly not.

Recently I replaced my Kona 3 with a Blackmagic DeckLink Extreme 3D card as part of an upgrade to a DaVinci Resolve. System also has an expansion chassis with 2 X GeForce 680 cards. Running the latest drivers for NVidia and Decklink, Resove 9.

The issue: FCP 7 is now consistently dropping frames, something it has never done before. Having run Speed Disk several times to our SAN, I can assure that this has nothing to do with drive speed bandwidth.

To try and trouble shoot this, I first disabled the NVidia drivers and disconnected the expansion chassis, eliminating the 680 cards from the mix. Same issues. I did notice that it seems to have more issue dropping frames on low quality ProRes (74.84 Mbit/s) vs. Uncompressed YUV 10-bit media (1.06 Gbit/s). My Speed Disk tests have constantly returned write/read rates of 558 MB/s and 629 MB/s respectively.

Next I tried uninstalling the Blackmagic drivers and bingo... frame dropping stopped altogether, regardless of format. Unfortunately this also eliminates my video out in Resolve which is not going to work.

Anyone having similar issues?

OSX 10.8.2
Blackmagic v. 9.6.4
FCP v.7.0.3


Thanks in advance!

bk


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Brandon Kraemer
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Oct 18, 2012 at 12:49:33 pm

Update... Disabling audio out on the Blackmagic card seems to stop the drop frames issue in FCP 7, but creates another one: out of sync audio!

See this thread, others are having this issue: http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1164660#1166253


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Sarah Jones
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Oct 19, 2012 at 5:24:18 pm

As an update to anyone following this thread, we have reproduced this issue in our lab and logged it for investigation.

Regards,

Sarah
Support Representative
Blackmagic Design Inc.


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Adam White
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Jan 2, 2013 at 11:09:33 pm

Hi Sarah,

I'm just wondering if there has been any progress solving this issue? I currently have a work around for presentations with clients but ideally would like to be able to get the Decklink card working with audio as soon as possible for outputting.

Thanks,
Adam White


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Dustin Foster
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Nov 28, 2012 at 9:38:36 pm

Brandon,

Have you been able to resolve the issue. We just put in a new system with the BM Decklink Hd 3D+ etc. and are experience dropped frames with the 9.6.8 drivers (posted by BM support on Nov 8, 2012)

I haven't gotten a response from Blackmagic, but I did get a nice reply telling me what dropped frames are.
Scratching my head.

2x 3.06 6 Core Intel Xeon
24 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
240 SSD (with trim enabled)



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Brandon Kraemer
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Nov 29, 2012 at 2:30:26 pm

I got a response from what seemed like "level 2" support... but no resolution yet. I heard from someone with more direct links into BMD tech support that they are working on it.


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Ron Burton
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Jan 7, 2013 at 6:55:02 pm

Add me to the list.

Just installed a Decklink 3d+ on a Mac Pro 5,1. This was replacing a Kona3g that was experiencing no dropped frames. Now I can't play ProRes 422 HD without dropping.

I'm using driver 9.6.9.


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Ron Burton
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Jan 7, 2013 at 7:22:46 pm

Just wanted to add...

My case is exactly the same (but with drivers 9.6.9). If I turn off the BM audio, the video plays fine. Turn the audio back on, the dropped frames return.

Mac Pro 5,1
OSX 10.8.2
Blackmagic v. 9.6.9
FCP v.7.0.3


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Brandon Kraemer
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Jan 7, 2013 at 7:43:23 pm

I certainly don't want to speak for BMD support, but I did hear back from them recently regarding my support ticket on this topic and they do not have a solution citing inconsistant results while testing. They said that with our without BMD hardware some Mountain Lion machines are working just fine with FCP 7 and others have issues. They said it was still open on their end but based on results so far it might not be something they can fix.


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Ron Burton
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Jan 7, 2013 at 7:53:43 pm

Hmm, I think I'll try booting to a previous OS just for kicks. I'll definitely open a support case, also.

Thanks.

Mac Pro 5,1
OSX 10.8.2
Blackmagic v. 9.6.9
FCP v.7.0.3


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Brandon Kraemer
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Jan 7, 2013 at 7:55:19 pm

please post back on how a non-mountain lion OS reacts. I am unfortunately hamstrung if I want my CUDA cores working but it would be nice to know all the same.

bk


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Ron Burton
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Jan 21, 2013 at 2:18:30 pm

Hey sorry, I didn't have time to try the OS downgrade. It's still something I want to try. Meantime, I'm wondering if the dropped frames error is bogus. I turned it off the warning and I can't see any dropping frames. If I turn the warning on, the error pops up within a second, though.

Are you seeing the dropped frames or just the warning message?

Mac Pro 5,1
OSX 10.8.2
Blackmagic v. 9.6.9
FCP v.7.0.3


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Jesse Coane
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Jan 21, 2013 at 4:19:50 pm

I'm not using a Decklink Exteme (UltraStudio Mini Monitor) but I was able to fix the drop frames warning by downgrading to Blackmagic drivers 9.6.8.

Just noticed that Blackmagic posted new drivers today. 9.7 Will try when I get home today.

Jesse

Director / Editor
http://www.jessecoane.com
@jessecoane


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Jesse Coane
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Jan 8, 2013 at 4:58:47 am

I'm having a similar experience on a new system I just put together. 2012 iMac with ultrastudio mini monitor + 12tb pegasus thunderbolt raid. Premiere, Resolve, FCPX, all play back great, but FCP7 drops frames left and right if I go out the blackmagic box. Just tried setting audio to built-in while leaving video-out on and the dropped frames stop.

It's brand new system and have been too jammed up to reach out to blackmagic. Will soon.

Jesse

Director / Editor
http://www.jessecoane.com
@jessecoane


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Jan Miltenburg
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Feb 13, 2013 at 8:02:01 pm

I had the same problem with 2 macpro's 4.1, os 10.8.2, fcp 7.03 and bm decklinck hd extreme 3d
Downgraded both systems to 10.7.5 and replaced the tdecklinck driver by version 9.5.3.
Everything is now running oke. Friday we are going to test with an macpro 3.1, 10.8.2 and differend bm drivers.


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Paul Jay
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Feb 14, 2013 at 9:29:29 am

Same here.

The latest 9.7 driver is just as bad.

You can't even play a color bar without dropping frames when the Blackmagic Video Playback is enabled.

Disabling Audio playback from the blackmagic makes it work again but no solution.

Its easy to reproduce. We've tested it on multiple systems. Also systems with a clean instal.

Hello Blackmagic?


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Brandon Kraemer
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Feb 14, 2013 at 2:24:42 pm

I have been through 3 driver versions now and 2 OS versions (10.8.1,2) and this problem has been 100% consistant ever since I switched from AJA to BMD hardware. Very frustrating.

BMD basically said there will be no fix for this and blamed Apple for changing something in the OS.

I have been doing this for a really long time and I can't remember a situation where such a significant hardware feature wasn't repaired by the next driver revision.

It's very disappointing.


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Jesse Coane
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Feb 14, 2013 at 3:57:01 pm

Make sure you report the problem to Blackmagic.

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/

As much as the finger is being pointed at Mountain Lion, I was also told this. "The issue is still open with the engineers and if there is something they're able to do, they will do their best to implement it."


Jesse

Director / Editor
http://www.jessecoane.com
@jessecoane


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Dustin Foster
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Feb 14, 2013 at 4:41:37 pm

I apologize for wearing my pessimist pants this morning. Sadly, I just don't see them putting much effort into this fix. I spoke with BM on the phone and they thought it was being addressed in the latest patch; well that was November. I absolutely agree with you Jesse that we have to keep reporting it. I just find it hard to believe that BM is stumped by this, It makes me think that they are writing FCP 7 off. The only thing I have done is turn off the WARN WITH DROPPED FRAMES, I still hear the "crackling" but I am at least able to get through an edit, client reviews have become exporting REFERENCES and playing back. <-----worst workflow ever.



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Jesse Coane
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Feb 14, 2013 at 5:04:01 pm

I hear ya. The more people that report it the more attention it will hopefully get. This may be too optimistic, but 10.8.3 should be out soon. Maybe there is a chance it fixes what mountain lion broke.

Jesse

Director / Editor
http://www.jessecoane.com
@jessecoane


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Brandon Kraemer
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Feb 14, 2013 at 5:10:49 pm

Turning off drop frames warning still results in a barely playable sequence. It's far worse with ProRes media than Uncompressed-10 bit for what that's worth.

If I switch the audio output to the line out of the mac vs audio follows video it solves the drop frames issue but the audio then plays about 3-5 frames out of sync which is unacceptable.

Premier doesn't have this issue so I agree it seems that Apple induced something that caused this issue but it seems like something solvable if history is a guide and that makes me too wonder if BMD is looking at this issue in the rearview mirror.

Having filed and followed up on a support ticket, BMD told me it was unlikely to be fixed and couldn't be consistently recreated on their end.


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Jesse Coane
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Feb 14, 2013 at 5:58:10 pm

Also, if this isn't happening with AJA then Mountain Lion can't be fully blamed.

Jesse

Director / Editor
http://www.jessecoane.com
@jessecoane


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Dustin Foster
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Feb 14, 2013 at 6:53:55 pm

As far as BM not being able to consistently recreate the problem. I would be more than happy to take a road trip with my setup in tow, or invite them to my suite for a nice cup of "watch this." I am headed to NAB, but highly doubt anyone on the floor will have FCP 7 up with a BM Decklink card.

ProRes vs. 10 bit is an interesting thought. ProRes 422 is a go to for us. Is it just the sequence settings you are changing it to 10-bit, or are you bringing in actual uncompressed media?



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Brandon Kraemer
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Feb 14, 2013 at 7:04:14 pm

Either uncompressed media or changing sequence settings and then rendering in uncompressed plays back with less frame drop than prores. Uncompressed doesn't require any processor overhead, it's just raw video and that is probably why it plays better, even through it has higher bandwidth requirements.

I've also noticed with uncompressed once you can get a sequence (say a :30 spot) to play through one time it tends to play fine from there on... until you make a change or relaunch FCP. I have not been able to play even :30 of pro-res with out issues.

(I had 10.8.1 installed with my Kona 3 card with no issues for about 2 weeks before I installed the BMD card which was required hardware for the DaVinci Resolve.)


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Juan Salvo
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Feb 16, 2013 at 3:07:29 am

What are you using for your GUI card? Is it a gt120 by any chance?

Colorist | Online Editor | Post Super | VFX Artist | BD Author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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Brandon Kraemer
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Feb 16, 2013 at 9:08:16 pm

No, it's the ATI Radeon HD 5870, 1024 MB.


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tyler Granlund
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on May 10, 2013 at 5:40:29 pm

This issue is killing me.


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Aj Koch
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on May 29, 2013 at 5:28:38 pm

Ditto. I can't edit like this. Nor can I wait for a fix that may never come. Pulling the trigger on an AJA solution right now instead.

-Aj


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tyler Granlund
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on May 29, 2013 at 5:29:29 pm

Keep in mind no AJA products work with Resolve if that's a part of your workflow.


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tyler Granlund
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on May 29, 2013 at 5:31:36 pm

Aj I fixed my issue by reverting to Lion. Works perfectly


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Aj Koch
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on May 29, 2013 at 7:24:03 pm

Reverting to Lion isn't much of an option for me. Lion came installed on my rMBP, and I don't have discs. Apple did the upgrade on my machine without my permission when it was in for maintenance, and the hassle of taking it back to have them revert to Lion is a big one, especially when I have projects due. And my Time Machine is now full of Mountain Lion only back-ups. I could do the internet recovery back to Lion but I'm wary of data loss.

Plus it's only a temporary solution as eventually I'll be forced to upgrade anyway.

Fortunately the majority of my color correction projects are done at a production facility and not in my home studio, so Resolve isn't an issue.


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Brandon Kraemer
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on May 29, 2013 at 8:16:41 pm

I'd like to say again, if BMD is listening, that as a Resolve user who has to do more than just use resolve in the suite, that you have hamstrung my ability to do an important and critical part of my job. Something as simple as playback audio and picture in sync in a conform situation, with frame accuracy, is basic. By forcing my hand with your card and then essentially taking the position that the fact it doesn't work isn't your responsibility is underwhelming to say the least.


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Thomas Berglund
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Sep 30, 2013 at 3:34:41 pm

Anyone still having issues with this? Has anyone tried the latest Blackmagic Desktop Video 9.7.8 that was released on September 27th? Does it fix the issue? I'm a bit worried about upgrading from 10.7 to 10.8 because of this problem.


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Ju Dor
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Nov 23, 2016 at 12:16:58 pm

Has this been solved yet?
Old thread but still relevant
I assume the same issue happened with the Intensity Pro card (I don't have Decklink)
Thanks


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Tyler Granlund
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Nov 23, 2016 at 3:43:06 pm

I solved it years ago. Afraid you won't like the answer. You must use the last version of OS that was supported by FCP7 and the last blackmagic driver. It's been a long time so the numbers escape me, but reverting to the supported OS and Driver fixes the issue for me when I was having this problem. Sorry I can't be more help, as you likely can't run that old of an OS on your current hardware


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Ju Dor
Re: Dropping Frames with DeckLink Extreme 3D+ in FCP 7.
on Nov 23, 2016 at 3:46:45 pm

Well I don't have a mac at present apart from a 2009 MacBook Pro, so that might actually work.
If not, I could get a macMini for it.
Does any of the mac gear with thunderbolt support that OS?
I am considering the BMD Teranex as well


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