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Alan Peil
9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 13, 2012 at 2:56:05 pm

The last couple of weeks, I had been having a mysterious and frustrating problem in PPro CS6 - I kept running out of RAM forcing me to restart PPro to clear the cache.

The frustrating part was that it wasn't happening all the time. The only way I could reproduce the issue was to play a variety of sequences with a variety of media and keep an eye on the windows resource monitor. Eventually, the RAM usage would just keep slowly climbing until it hit 16GB (my total installed), then the timeline would start to choke.

Well, after 2 days of testing, I figured out that it was Desktop Video v.9.5.3 that was the culprit. Rolling back to 9.5.2 solved the issue.

Anyone else seeing this issue, or is it some conflict with 9.5.3 and my machine?


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Andreas Wojtaschek
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 14, 2012 at 5:14:30 pm

I can confirm this.

Since 9.5.3 I have massive problems with CS6.
Especially with AVC Intra footage.


Regards

Andreas

--

Entertainment Producer IHK
mindandvision


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Gerry Curtis
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 16, 2012 at 8:38:51 pm

I had the same issue.

Cheers,

Gerry


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Joshua Helling
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 16, 2012 at 10:56:35 pm

Hey guys,

This sounds odd, not sure why the codec type would cause this sort of thing since Premiere Pro itself handles all the decode, but it certainly seems like you guys are experiencing it.

Can you give me your system details here and more specifics on the format you're using and how you've configured your preset (rather which you are using?).

Thanks

Sincerely,

Joshua
Director of Support
Blackmagic Design Inc.


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Alan Peil
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 17, 2012 at 2:57:10 pm

Hey Joshua,

Thanks for looking into this. Here's my system specs:

CPU - Intel I7 3.2ghz
RAM - 16gb
Windows 7 64 bit
Nvidia GeForce GTX 285
Decklink Studio

I've seem this RAM issue happen with all sorts of sequence presets, but I first noticed it when playing out a 10 minute long "D1/DV NTSC (0.9091) 30fps drop frame" sequence (yes, we still work in SD at my TV station, AND still roll out to beta...I know, it's a sad sad thing).

Let me know if you need any other info.

Alan


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Joshua Helling
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 17, 2012 at 6:00:02 pm

Cool Alan,

Thanks for that information. I'll have someone test this now. Are you using native DV footage? I'll get this setup in our lab today to look at.

Sincerely,

Joshua
Director of Support
Blackmagic Design Inc.


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David Porto Rodríguez
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 17, 2012 at 6:28:00 pm

Hi,

Same issue here, i tried with 9.5.3 and with 9.6, both eating RAM, i had to downgrade to 9.5.2.

Another issue i'm experimenting is that there is a delay from the desktop viewer to the video output of 5-6 frames, which is a pain in the ass to audio sync editing. This delay is there in every version. No delay with FCPX or FCP7.

I'm using a MacPro 4,1 - 16GB RAM - RAID 0 6TB and Decklink SDI.


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Joshua Helling
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 17, 2012 at 9:59:48 pm

Where is your audio coming from? Are you connected to the Decklink or are you using the desktop speakers?

If you are go to Premeire -> Preferences -> Audio Hardware. Make sure that setting is set for Blackmagic Audio.

This will make sure that the audio and video are both coming from the Decklink board. This will guarantee they are in sync at the board (there might be a few frames delay from the program monitor, but this is normal).

If you use different devices to play audio and video we cannot guarantee A/V sync.

This of course means that you have to have a monitor that can either monitor audio from SDI or you will have to get a de-embedder to monitor the audio via Analog or AES.

Sincerely,

Joshua
Director of Support
Blackmagic Design Inc.


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David Porto Rodríguez
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 17, 2012 at 10:08:20 pm

Hi Joshua,

The audio is coming out the Blackmagic and it is indeed in sync with the video on the external monitor, the problem is it's delayed 5-6 frames from the premiere viewer, so you say this is a normal behavior? This won't be corrected? Is it a Adobe problem? Because in FCPX and FCP7 this doesn't happen.

Thanks

David


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Carl Schuurbiers
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 18, 2012 at 4:38:24 pm

Hi David, Joshua,

Please allow me to hijack this thread a little further... ;-)
I have a Decklink SDI card and a similar problem. About 5 frames delay between program monitor and the external monitor. When I send audio through the Decklink SDI it is indeed sync with the video on the external monitor (as David reports) but I can't look at the program monitor on the computer screen, because it is horribly out of sync.

As I posted earlier, we need the following:

1. speed up displaying of frames from Premiere to the output card->external monitor. Driver optimization? Users with Kona3 cards report both monitors and audio in sync, and with final cut 7, there is also less lag, so it must be possible to have a lot less lag at least. In the current situation it is just too much.

2. I can understand that some latency in the path to the external monitor may be unavoidable. Also external monitors themselves have some lag. To compensate we need to be able to set a delay for the program monitor so that what it displays is sync with what can be seen on the external monitor. Final Cut 7 has such a setting.(under system settings -> play back control -> frame offset.)

3. Another delay, but for the audio only. This way, people who are using a different interface/path for the audio can adjust the audio delay to make sure their audio is perfectly sync to the picture. Also "sensitive" people like me ;-) can trim audio in sub-frame units (in miliseconds for instance) to make audio sync even more precise.

My conf.: Mac Pro (mid 2010) 8-core, 24GB RAM, Quadro 4000, Decklink SDI with 9.5.2 drivers. Pr6.0.1

Cheers,

Carl.


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Joshua Helling
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 18, 2012 at 5:47:54 pm

Actually FCP7 (at least) behaves similarly, but I believe it's only like 3 frames or so off. This is a result of the buffering. I'm not sure why the offset is so far, i'll check to see with product management to see if this is normal, or if it is something that can be improved.

the good news is that we have indeed reproduced the memory issue and are writing it up as a bug today and the engineers are already looking at it.

Sincerely,

Joshua
Director of Support
Blackmagic Design Inc.


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Carl Schuurbiers
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 18, 2012 at 6:15:29 pm

Hi Joshua,

I'd say that in my situation FCP7 has about 2 frames delay and Pr6 about 5 frames, quite a noticeable difference.

BTW: I realise that my points 2 and 3 should really be directed at Adobe. I already made feature requests at Adobe, but maybe it helps to get the point across via this way as well.

Thanks for responding,

Carl.


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Ray Tragesser
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 19, 2012 at 12:14:23 am

Hi Joshua,

One more thing to add about the delay between the program monitor and the BM output. I can deal pretty easily by looking at the SDI monitor for playback, but what is a real drag is the source monitor. If I load up an audio waveform in the source monitor to do some visual editing, the delay between what I see on the screen and what I hear and how that interacts with each other is not very pleasant to work with. I happen to have a Yamaha 01V digital mixer next to me where I have programmed in some delay offsets to dedicated recall buttons, but it slows the process down. It would be great if you could get the frame delay closer between the output of the BM card and Program viewer. So I am guessing you would need to delay the program and source viewer to match the hardware processing of the BM hardware?

Looking forward to more improvement to CS-6. For my particular workflow CS-6 is 1000% better than the CS-5 series in terms of 3rd party I/O integration with BM.

Thanks
Ray T


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Bo Higbee
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 19, 2012 at 4:25:46 pm

MY PC:
Intel mobo 965 chipset, Q6600 cpu @ 2.4ghz, 8GB ram, Palit OC'd GTX560 1GB ram, Raid 0 (260~300m/sec), Decklink SDI out to a BMD HDLinkPro box which outputs to HDMI monitor. Workflow is HDV aquisition via firewire - edit with output to BetaSP and files.

EDITED 7/25/12 ... I use the NVidia 'CUDA CS5.5 GPU "hack" and have both Premiere Pro CS5.5 and Premiere Pro CS6 installed with the updates.


I use an AJA D10CE SDI converter box to make component NTSC and use audio out from HDLink Pro thru an adapter to get audio to BetaSP deck..... don't ask - it works fine.

NOTE: I have no issues in Premeiere Pro CS5.5 using Decklink drivers 9.5.3 ... only that PPro CS5.5 won't let me choose MY AUDIO OUTPUT preference which PPro CS6 does.

THE ISSUES are using Premiere Pro CS6 with the Decklink 9.5.3 driver.

ISSUE 1 - REVERSE FIELD dominance using DV clips on CS6 NTSC or DV timeline. I must got into each clip and click "reverse field dominance" setting to keep my eyes from getting pulled out of my head looking at my 27" picture tube program monitor during playback. No problems with CS5.5 using BMD's ntsc or DV templates... just a BIG problem in CS6 as there are no BMD DV templates ... only MS DV or Adobe DV settings. *(No issues in PPro CS5.5 with this)

ISSUE 2 - Caching, caching, caching, timeline pausing, churning & freezing .... CONSTANTLY !! using Premiere Pro CS6 and driver 9.5.3. Basically driver 9.5.3 is un-usable in CS6. *(no issues in PPro CS5.5)

ISSUE 3 - ... well driver 9.5.3 fixed the closed captioning problem in CS6, but with the caching problems you've got to go back to driver 9.5.2 so you can work, BUT you have no CLOSED CAPTIONS ! .... see the problem here? *(no issues in PPro CS5.5)

ISSUE 4 - using PPro CS6 and driver 9.5.3 ... big color offset problem with motion video! This is NO problem using same driver in PPro CS5.5 ... only withing CS6.

HERE'S THE PROBLEM: Imagine a white Chevy Van traveling in daytime left to right across your screen at 25mph in a medium wide fixed (no pan) shot using a Sony V1U camera set at HDV 1080i. Suck the footage into PC using firewire .... In PPro CS5.5 using driver 9.5.3 the red chroma smear of the tail light lenses trails just slightly behind the tail light lens and appears as a normal chroma lag - EVEN when you pause timeline and do a frame grab. It's normal.

BUT !!! ... now do the same thing with PPro CS6 and driver 9.5.3 and the red chroma lag of the tail light lens is IN FRONT OF THE TAIL LIGHT by about ONE FRAME !!! .... doh !@#$!!

To get this CS6 FORWARD chroma to look correct in your edit window you must go up to the program window display and set it to DISPLAY SECOND FIELD !! .... but after doing that to straighten out the chroma in the edit window ... doing a frame grab at this point will result in a frame grab still exhibiting the FORWARD or advanced chroma in front of the object in motion !!!
.... go figure THAT one out.

Now my days wayyyyy back 20+ or more years ago when I had a Commodor Amiga 2000 video Toaster taught me that you can't get a FULL chroma sample in a frame grab in one or two fields, but rather must use 4 fields to get a total chroma sample for the field or frame your working on.

Using the above thinking I will deduce that driver 9.5.3 is looking at luminance from one field, but is getting it's color sampling from THE WRONG FIELDS ... way out in front of the action.

As a further note about audio being in sync with BMD hardware or not - as mentioned in this thread ... I want to be able to MAKE MY OWN CHOICES how and what I use as an audio output to my decks. I don't wish to be tied to the archaic notion that one must use "the harware we sell you" mentality.

This is what gives Premiere Pro CS6 such a great free-ing experience that we've never had prior to CS6. We can within Premiere Pro CS6 choose what we want to use as output hardware both for video and audio.

I want to choose my output hardware as MY NEEDS dictate.

We are now in a file based media world and archaic notions used during the tape based days that you must use "OUR HARDWARE" are over .... bigtime!

Remember the old fixed "rigid" hardware like the Digital Perception DPS 2500 capture board .... or the Video Factory box? ... old, dead relics from the past that could not adapt.

Thanks for listening.


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Bo Higbee
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 20, 2012 at 1:50:36 pm

Regarding audio hardware selectivity ... it just dawned on me ....

In the Blackmagic Media Express program we need the ability to select our own audio output hardware just like we now have in Premiere Pro CS6.

With this feature it would add huge benefits to those who do live events multi media productions as well as solve some connection issues in the video edit studio.

eom.


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Bo Higbee
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 20, 2012 at 10:10:07 pm

... maybe just add a switch in the control panel drivers panel to select which audio device will be used with the video hardware.


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Bo Higbee
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 21, 2012 at 2:11:11 pm

Discovered another driver 9.5.3 issue in PPro CS6 ...

If you render out a 20 minute or so NTSC clip in Sony Vegas Video 11 (64bit) with Closed Closed Captions using their 10bit YUV codec so you get embedded captions in the video (as you can't render to BMD codec and get embedded captions) and place that rendered clip on a PPro CS6 Blackmagic Design NTSC template timeline ... after about 5 or 10 minutes of playback the clip will come to a chugging, churning halt freezing my Premiere CS6 program .... and my drives are sitting here still caching after I crash out of the Premiere playback.

With Premiere shut down and looking at my desktop my drives just sit and churn for no reason and I must re-boot the PC.


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Bo Higbee
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 24, 2012 at 12:01:50 am

Let me see now ..... the silence here is deafening.

... enough of the PMS ... let's get 'er fixed.

eom.


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Joshua Helling
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 25, 2012 at 7:02:52 pm

Hey all,

Good news, we've found the memory leak in CS6 for both mac and PC and the updated drivers are going through QA now. In the mean time, if you guys would like here are a couple of seeds for you to try out and see if it helps.

Look forward to hearing your results on this.

PC:

http://seeds.blackmagicdesign.com/DesktopVideo/DesktopVideo_9.6.1a9.zip

MAC:

http://seeds.blackmagicdesign.com/DesktopVideo/DesktopVideo_9.6.1a9.dmg.zip

As I mentioned these are still going through QA, but if you'd like feel free to download these and give them a go.

Sincerely,

Joshua
Director of Support
Blackmagic Design Inc.


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Bo Higbee
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6 - BETA TEST
on Jul 26, 2012 at 2:04:46 pm

USING BETA DRIVER ver. 9.6.1a9

WHAT WORKS USING PPro CS6
Using a BMD preset NTSC timeline with DV footage - NO reverse fielding issues. NTSC 608 closed captions work. Scrubbing 1080i footage is MUCH better now on my lowly Quad core 2.4Ghz Q6600 box and actually do-able now.

HOWEVER:
Problems remain using (Adobe) DV preset with DV footage and going out to SDI via ntsc converter box .... BMD needs to make a DV preset for PPro CS6 using BMD DV codec as there is still a REVERSE FIELD issue using DV footage on a Adobe DV timeline using SDI output to NTSC monitor. (since there is not a BMD DV timeline preset anymore within CS6.)
... this REVERSE FIELDING of DV footage is also affected by how you have GPU set - either in software mode or hardware mode.... changing settings causes additional issues to the REVERSE FIELDING of DV footage on a DV timeline when outputing to NTSC via a Decklink SDI card to a NTSC converter. (Note: I use the GPU Nvidia 'Cuda "hack")

If you just put DV on a BMD NTSC timeline (as that must be the future until DV format dies) then there is no issue that I can see and possibly no use for the Adobe DV preset even.

AS REPORTED ON MY POST OF 7/19: WHITE VAN TAILIGHT chroma smear IN FRONT OF MOTION is still there when doing a frame grab .... but further investigation shows it happens even when using XDCAM HD422 non BMD presets too ... so I guess that is Adobe's problem.

* I STILL WANT SEPERATE AUDIO HARDWARE CONTROL in BMD driver control panel so I can select my own audio hardware for monitoring ... or at least within Media Express for playout.

** Maybe make a new version of the Decklink SDI card with audio out jack ... something like the original Decklink PCI card (which doesn't work in 64bit)

For my system config see my post on 7/19.


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Bo Higbee
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6 - BETA TEST QUESTION
on Jul 26, 2012 at 7:03:41 pm

... out of curiosity ... for future reference ...

I read somewhere recently (Adobe Premiere support website maybe) that CEA-708 Closed Captions don't work out of Blackmagic Design HD SDI hardware ... and that you needed to use the "AHA!" brand hardware to get working CEA-708 closed captions out the HD SDI port to HD broadcast tape, etc.


Could a BMD support person here confirm that this "new" Beta 9.6.1a9 driver will indeed make 708 HD-SDI Closed Captions work correctly out the HD SDI port? (I have no way of testing.)

... or is there a hardware design issue with outputing 708 closed captions?

TIA


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Joshua Helling
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6 - BETA TEST
on Jul 26, 2012 at 11:24:10 pm

Okay..cool. Well, I'll have one of my techs check this field order issue out.

I think I know why this may happen. Essentially DV is lower field and we don't output DV over SDI, we don't output DV at all. Instead we output D1 which is 720x486 UFF. The scaling should be handled by putting lines of black at the top and bottom which would be a standard DV->D1 conversion to preventing stretching and nasty softening. And the field order reversal should happen before it's given over to our card. Because CS6 was such a large change with how our board integrated it is quite possible that this field order change simply doesn't happen.

That said, can you define what you mean by the issue is different if you are using the hardware transmit engine and when you are not? I know you mentioned using the hack, which means we won't know if the software even "SHOULD" render that correctly, but that's not a sticking point. I'll test both with a supported card, if the issue is the same we can rule out the CUDA board. But first I need to know what the differences are that I should expect.

Thanks!

Sincerely,

Joshua
Director of Support
Blackmagic Design Inc.


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Bo Higbee
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6 - BETA TEST - DV25 & DV50
on Jul 27, 2012 at 8:55:22 pm

I've been all day trying to upload a 163 meg DV clip to my website and finally had to use a Linux OS from a Live CD and their FTP program to get it there.

DOWNLOAD THIS :44 SECOND DV CLIP FOR TESTING: (save as to your PC)

HTTP://216.92.39.145/DVfootage.avi ...(it's 163 megs)

Look at LEFT yellow shirt sleeve as I walk down plank to boat. Then - any camera pan with fishing rods will show all these flickering issues. (this is my 6-7 year old local cable footage)

My Nvidia card is a GTX560 1GB (Palit brand OC'd).

Only the hardware cuda GPU with REVERSE field checked on the file plays correctly and sharply on a Adobe DV 25 timeline in PPRo CS6 with the output set to Decklink SDI output hardware ... from which I convert to NTSC using a AJA D10DCE mini converter. I'm monitoring on an old 27" PICTURE TUBE Samsung TV/Monitor (this shows the fielding issues). If I use the software only GPU the image goes to crap. It gets VERY SOFT, but it doesn't flicker... just NOT useable.

NOTE: If I put the same DV 25 footage on an Adobe DV50 timeline preset the same flickering happens, but only half as noticeable and is NOT controllable with ANY settings that I've tried. ALSO: When I use the software GPU on the DV50 timeline the footage is TWICE as soft and TWICE as FUZZY as when doing same test on DV25 timeline.

... probably due to DV50 editing is 4.2.2 and the DV 25 editing is 4.1.1 .... maybe ... don't know.

The main thing I see in both the DV25 & DV50 timelines USING SOFTWARE GPU ONLY is the image is stretched vertically, it's soft and it's fuzzy.

If you can just port over your DV25 & DV50 presets from CS5.5 and BLOCK the Adobe preset menues so they don't show when using your driver software package ... then this might solve this.

Download my footage clip above and play with it !

... now about that CEA-708 Closed Caption question I posed ... 'ya see I want to get on Outdoor Channel and they require HD programming with CAE-708 captions - either embedded in a file, or in DVCPro HD tape ... any clues here ?

As an added note:

The day PPro CS6 was released for trial download I installed it and I played with it for TWO days. When I saw all the issues with CS6 ... I ran right over to the B & H website and bought Premiere CS5.5
... WHILE IT WAS STILL AVAILABLE ... :-)


HAVE FUN !

EOM.


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Sarah Jones
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6 - BETA TEST - DV25 & DV50
on Jul 31, 2012 at 1:17:07 am

Hi Bo,

Thanks for uploading your clip. I've been testing out with it today and wanted to report back my findings.

The machine I tested on was an HP Z800 series workstation with an nVidia Quadro 4000 graphics card. The machine was a new, clean build only running CS6.0.1 and Desktop Video 9.5.3. I tested the output of a DeckLink SDI to a Blackmagic Mini Converter SDI to Analog to get component video to a Sony CRT monitor in order to as closely represent your workflow as possible.

When testing your clip in either an Adobe DV - NTSC sequence or a Blackmagic Uncompressed NTSC sequence, I found the following results.

When I utilized software acceleration only and kept the Reverse Field Order box for the clip unchecked, the video played back to my monitor very crisply.

When I utilized software acceleration only and checked the box for Reverse Field Order, the video played back with extreme flickering.

When I utilized CUDA hardware acceleration and kept the Reverse Field Order box for the clip unchecked, the video played back softly and appeared as if it was being deinterlaced.

When I utilized CUDA hardware acceleration and checked the box for Reverse Field Order, the video played back softly and appeared as if it was being deinterlaced.

As you can see, these results are very nearly the opposite of what you've come across, and unfortunately at the moment I don't have a reason as to why this is. I checked to see if I could track down an nVidia GTX560 in order to get even closer to your setup, but we don't have that card (or any unsupported card) available currently. My curiosity in both our cases is that the CUDA isn't rendering out as expected, but this wouldn't explain why your software acceleration setting is showing soft video and mine is showing crisp video.

We'd like to keep testing this and see if we can find any consistencies, perhaps on a different system configuration.

Regarding the 708 captions, I've confirmed with the product manager that the latest Desktop Video 9.6.1 allows 708 captions to pass through the SDI connection.

Sarah
Support Representative
Blackmagic Design Inc.


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Bo Higbee
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6 - BETA TEST - DV25 & DV50
on Aug 3, 2012 at 3:52:22 pm

Regardless...

Everybody has differing hardware set ups and a proper functioning BMD preset (maybe even leaving the Adobe DV presets alone) will add functionality for those wanting to output DV25 and DV50 formats out to tape using BMD hardware with PPro CS6 when all else fails.

FYI ...

After more testing I still have REVERSE field DV issues on a DV timeline.

I REALLY think you should go back and look at DV25 and DV50 timeline flickering problems again with hardware GPU enabled. NTSC timelines don't have the issues that DV format timelines have out to Decklink hardware.

Just take some of your motion video footage (HD or otherwise) and render it to DV and put it on a Adobe DV timeline out to monitor.

eom.


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Alan Peil
Re: 9.5.3 Driver Eats My RAM - PPro CS6
on Jul 19, 2012 at 3:49:15 pm

Yes, native DV footage mostly (encoded from Beta).


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