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CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac

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Dan Turner
CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 21, 2012 at 10:14:13 am

Hi all, wondering if anyone can help.

My setup:

Mac Pro 5,1 (2x Quad Core 2.4Ghz)
26GB RAM
ATI Radeon HD 5770
BMD Decklink Extreme HD 3D
JVC HD Reference Monitor
2x Desktop Monitors
Premiere Pro CS6

I've installed the latest Desktop Video Drivers etc, and am getting playback on sequences using the JVC, however it is a few frames out (late), which makes it unusable for promo/general cutting.

This is a real shame, as I haven't been able to use it at all properly on any build of CS yet for various reasons/bugs.

Can anyone help? I can see a reference output timing option in Sys Pref, but it seems to have no effect?

Thanks in advance

Dan


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Paul Jay
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 21, 2012 at 3:42:01 pm

Same Issue here on iMac i7 16GB with Thunderbolt Ultrastudio 3D

10.7.3
BMD drivers 9.5.1
Premiere CS6

At least 2 frames delay.


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Kyle Gentz
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 21, 2012 at 5:23:27 pm

Same Issue with

Mac Pro 4,1 2 x 2.26 GHz
32 GB DDR3 RAM
BMD Decklink 3D
CS6.

Im looking for a fix, nothing is working.

Live, Life and the pursuit of Pixels


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Chris Cea
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 21, 2012 at 9:07:03 pm

Kyle, just wondering... Is the lag issue all you are experiencing with your system?

I am running a 2010 Mac pro 12 Core with Lion 10.7.4, CS6 and the Decklink HD Extreme 3D Card. Playback on my external FSI monitor has been a problem since day one. On Playback, the video becomes squeezed and green glitchy video shows to the left and right of the video. This is all after I did a complete clean install of the OS (went from Snow lep to Lion) and installed all of the drivers associated with the BM card and Quadro 4000 card.

What's really bizarre is that this issue is only displayed in SD sequences at the moment. 1080 sequences appear to playback fine while 720 sequences do not output at all. I have only run into one other poster on the PP forum that had the same issue as myself. At any point, did you experience anything like what I described above?

Thanks in advance for taking the time out to respond?
Chris


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Kyle Gentz
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 21, 2012 at 11:24:22 pm

720p Works great. SD seems fine, I'm only having the Lag issue with all outputs. Im running to a Flanders LM-2140W (HDSDI) and a Cheapo 32inch Vizio (HDMI). Ive had many good experiences with with mine. Im running the ATI Radeon HD 5770 1024 MB, but soon to get two Quadro 4000's.

I'm also running a pretty "dirty" install. I need to reformat soon. its been almost 11 months since my last clean wipe. Card defective maybe?

-Kyle

Live, Life and the pursuit of Pixels


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John Davidson
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 21, 2012 at 11:53:21 pm

Kyle, I ran into the same thing with an almost identical mac pro to yours with a Decklink Studio. Tried to find an offset option in Premiere similar to FCP7 and the closest thing I could find didn't seem to work. Do you have FCPX 10.0.4? When I played back on X it was perfect, so I think the issue is how the BM card interprets what CS6 outputs. I'd cross reference with AJA but, well, there aren't any AJA drivers yet.

That said, our After Effects seems pretty great, it was just premiere that was causing issues.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Todd Gill
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 22, 2012 at 12:59:46 pm

I'm having the same issue as well. I have a Mab Pro 5,1 with the ATI 5770, Deck Link Extreme 3D with Quadro 4000. I'm outputting to my FSI LM-2461W. It is lagging. I was looking for some sort of offset, but could not find one.

Todd Gill
Editor.Colorist
Digital Post Ink
http://www.digitalpostink.com


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Matt Dowling
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 23, 2012 at 4:17:12 am

Hi Guys,

I wanted to get some clarification from you about the reported lagging.

Are you meaning there is a lag between the desktop monitor and the SDI/HDMI monitor of 2+ frames? I did some pip tests today and the output was in sync audio/video wise. I was monitoring the HDMI out of the DeckLink card. Are you guys monitoring the audio from the DeckLink output or using the Mac audio output?

Could you also let me know what codec, frame rate and frame size the clips are so we can run some more tests here.

One issue we have seen is the the audio meters lag behind the playback by several frames - we have a fix for that and also a fix for the SD 4:3 and NTSC issues reported.

Our goal is to do an update early next week but i would also like to get clarification on this lagging issue as well.

Thanks,

Regards,

Matt
Blackmagic Design


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Dan Turner
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 23, 2012 at 11:43:21 am

Hi Matt, thanks for replying.

You're right, in my instance I'm using the built-in audio for output, and BM for monitor... could this be the problem?

To clarify, if I have the program monitor on the GUI side, and output to the HD as well, side by side the HD monitor is a couple of frames behind.

Even with program monitor closed the problem is the same.

Furthermore, sometimes it gets worse and the lag builds up, other times it's a bit less...


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Kyle Gentz
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 23, 2012 at 9:57:31 pm

Matt, I'm Using the Decklink for Video and Audio Playback. Also I have it set in premiere as "Blackmagic Audio". Im using the XLR outs. Also Im monitoring with HDMI and HDSDI. I have had the same issue on Cannon DSLR H.264 Footage, RED Scarlet R3D Footage, XD CAM Footage, and ProRes 422 (all flavors). Most everything has been on a 1080p 23.976 timeline. We shoot everything in 23.976.

I think that answers your all your questions.

-Kyle

Live, Life and the pursuit of Pixels


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Andre Calitz
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 22, 2012 at 8:57:38 pm

I have a new Mac Pro with Decklink Extreme HD card and when playout to tape there is no consistency. In other words, when I set the in point to tape on 00:00:30:00, CS6 will playout to 00:00:29:08, or sometimes any other frame close to that, but never the right in point to tape. I have tested the same machine and card with FCP7 and it works perfect!
I have the latest 9.5.1 driver installed but that does not seem to help, and Blackmagic does not reply to my mails.... this is immensely frustrating for me!!!


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Georg P. Muller
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 23, 2012 at 2:58:27 am

Same issue on iMac i7 with Premiere CS6 and intensity extreme (thunderbolt). FCP X syncs just fine - but not Premiere; it lags at least 5 or more frames... Did anyone find a way to offset Premiere? Can't work with it otherwise.


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Andre Calitz
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 23, 2012 at 2:44:24 pm

Here is an example of how much out of sync the Decklink Card and CS6 is on our machine!



I hope they fix this!!!


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Ray Tragesser
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 24, 2012 at 2:14:31 pm

@ Matt,

Glad to see you poke your head in here once and a while. BM needs to be much more active here on this forum. I realize that this is a user to user forum, but participating here once and while really makes us end users feel like your looking out for us and working with your user base. Lets see more of that from BM.

@ Group

The screen lag may not be a problem but rather the difference between panel types and processing. I never expect my desktop program monitor to be exactly in sync with my broadcast monitors. LCD and Plasma have different millisecond delay variables not to mention adding in any processing time the I/O card introduces.

The audio needs to be offset to match the panel type. This all starts off with using the audio output of the i/o card. If you dont, the audio and video will be wildly out of sync. At the same time if you are using the i/o card audio and watching the Premiere Pro program monitor, it will now appear out of sync. I use a Yamaha digital mixer and save presets for different scenariors. The digital mixer has the ability to enter delay values specific for each monitor. Expensive but needed in my setup with a roomful of clients.

@ Andre

Output to tape really needs improved from Adobe and the card I/O makers. I find myself using Blackmagic Media Express to capture and layoff to tape. I typically make master files of all projects and then load them into BM Media Express for layoff.

Have you tried that for frame accuracy?

Ray


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Matt Dowling
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 25, 2012 at 6:54:39 am

Hi Guys,

@Ray

Nice to hear from you! Hope all is well. I try to get on here when I can but thats getting harder these days.

@ group

We have been investigating the lag issue you guys reported and here is what we have found so far:

There is a definite lag between the desktop and SDI output when you use the arrow keys to step through frames and then hit play quickly. BUT if you do the same thing with the mouse.... its all good. Is this what you guys are seeing? We even saw if you step through frames quickly with keyboard and then wait for a second to hit play.... its all good.

We are working with Adobe on this one as it seems very odd that mouse and keyboard have totally different delays. Having said that, the Transmit plugin architecture is brand new for CS6 so there maybe some unforeseen things crop up that all 3rd parties will be in the same boat on and have to work through.

I'll keep you posted on progress with that issue.

@ Chris

We have fixed those issues with Desktop Video 9.5.2 which will be on the BMD website tomorrow.

@ Andre

Just hold tight - your issue with ETT will be resolved probably tomorrow too. Might be worth running "Check for updates" tomorrow

Regards,

Matt
Blackmagic Design


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Chris Cea
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on May 29, 2012 at 10:19:06 pm

HI Matt, Thanks for the reply. The new driver does in fact fix my SD playback issue. Many thanks to BM for that new driver !!!

From what I can tell though, 720 sequences still do not play out to the external monitor. 1080 sequences play out fine though. Very strange. :)


Again, Thanks for chiming in Matt
Chris


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John Fromstein
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on Jun 22, 2012 at 5:30:51 pm

Yes! I've been working in a 720p sequence in PP CS6 and for the life of me couldn't figure out why it isn't displayed on my external monitor.

BMD folks: any idea when that will get addressed?


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Carl Schuurbiers
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on Jun 22, 2012 at 10:59:18 pm

...and the external monitor still lags behind 5-6 frames compared to the program monitor :(

Everything happens constantly 5-6 frames later compared to the program monitor, not only during playback, but also when scrubbing, or advancing frames, the external monitor always lags behind.

Carl.


Mac Pro 5,1
8-core, 24GB RAM
OS 10.7.4
NVidia Quadro 4000
BMD Decklink SDI
BMD driver 9.5.2
Pr 6.0.1


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Carl Schuurbiers
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on Jun 23, 2012 at 6:18:15 pm

we need two things done:

1. there should be less latency between the program monitor and the external signal. I realize that some latency can't be avoided, but it must be minimized.

2. we need some kind of compensation control in Premiere to delay the program monitor by x frames so at least when playing, both the monitors are sync. (in Final Cut 7 this was done under system settings -> play back control -> frame offset.)


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Craig Banham
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on Nov 6, 2012 at 3:23:34 pm

I spent nearly a week trouble shooting this issue and was about to get a refund on my Decklink card when I discovered a solution (for me at least).

This is what resolved the issue for me. Go to Premiere’s ‘Preferences’ and then the ‘Playback’ section. In the ‘Audio Device’ pull down menu make sure you have ‘Blackmagic Playback’ selected (mine was set to Adobe Playback).

Note on that same page you need to have the 'Blackmagic Playback box ticked further down under 'Video Device'.

Hope that helps.


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Carl Schuurbiers
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on Nov 8, 2012 at 2:57:53 pm

My settings are already as you say, all black magic ;-)

At some point, the lag was optimized, it's better now, so my request #1 has been solved, now we only need point #2 fixed.

The external monitor is inevitably going to have some delay, we need a setting so the program monitor window on the desktop can be delayed to compensate so during playback it is in sync with the external monitor.

At the moment it is very distracting to watch edits happen first on the desktop, and a bit later on the external monitor (Flanders LM-2140W)

When just watching the external monitor, and listening to the output of the LM-2140, sync is ok. (LM-2140 audio output automatically compensates for video delay when using SDI input)

If one needs to have a different audio path, the audio is usually faster so one can put a delay plugin in the master audio channel in Premiere and fiddle with it until it is sync.

The ultimate thing would of course be to have adjustable delay for each of the card's outputs. (In the BMD control panel) Then one can trim until all display systems are sync and be done with it.

This doesn't however eliminate the need to delay the program monitor in the Premiere window on the desktop.

Ok, let's go a bit further: Let's also have a button to switch on/off the external monitoring. (like there is in Avid)

I think I'll put in another feature request at BMD and Adobe....

Cheers,

Carl.


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Daryl Ashby
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on Nov 15, 2012 at 3:51:50 pm

This is a known issue that has been with decklink cards for at least the 8 years that we have been using them.

The processing on the cards seems to delay the video and audio by 4 frames. This is why Fcp has a 4 frame delay built into their setup, to delay the computer monitor video by the same 4 frames, so that it matches your broadcast monitor.

In Fcp the 4 frame delay setting is under system settings and then select the playback tab...viola.

This keeps your playhead and your computer video in line with the decklink video/audio output.

In cs6 there doesn't seem to be a delay solution that I can find.

Solution...buy a aja kona card.They are a little more expensive but have no noticeable delay.


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Abhishek Seth
Re: CS6/Decklink Lag on Mac
on Jun 23, 2014 at 4:03:40 pm

Hi Matt.

I am using Avid MC 7.0.3 with BM Ultra Express (drivers 9.9.3) and getting the same 2 frame lag while playing video through HDMI out and audio via XLR. I usually edit feature films where we shoot everything on 24 FPS and need 3rd monitors to edit and preview as standards. I've edited on FCP and Adobe premier but all has the same problem. Why it can not be solved? It really is frustrating as Directors and production people are not the creative ones, and when they observe this problem, well sometimes they don't, they doubt the editor's skills and even after explaining the technicalities of the matter they reply with "Then why the F#%k are we spending so much money on something which can't even play the edit in sync..."

I have tried everything but couldn't find any solution for it. I hope u can understand my frustration as a technician. Pls help with some solution, If any is available.

Thanks.
Abhishek.

System details - Mac Pro Six-Core 3.5GHz , Intel Xeon E5 with 12MB L3 Cache And Turbo Boost up to 3.9 GHz, memory 32GB, Dual AMD- - FirePro D500 graphics processor with 3GB of GDDR5 VRAM each, 256GB PCIe-based flash storage. Storage - Netstor Raid 5 with Enterprise class HDD'S 24TB.


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