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Hyperdeck shuttle HDMI in adding set up to DNxHD file?

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Anthony Miles
Hyperdeck shuttle HDMI in adding set up to DNxHD file?
on Apr 30, 2012 at 10:47:30 pm

This may be an od question but I used a Hyperdeck shuttle to record a musical performance and I recorded AVCHD on board the FS100 with very rich blacks, in contrast, the DNxHD file had much lower contrast, almost like it had a set up or bumped up black levels. Is this possible, Any thought on what might cause the black levels to be elevated in this workflow with HDMI input from Sony FS100 to Hyperdeck shuttle?

Thanks!

Best regards,
Anthony Miles
DP, Editor 4th Wall Productions, LLC
http://4thwalltvandfilm.com


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Juan Salvo
Re: Hyperdeck shuttle HDMI in adding set up to DNxHD file?
on May 1, 2012 at 3:06:47 am

Are you looking at the DNxHD in avid or through a QuickTime app? There is a limited/full interpretation issue with DNxHD in qt.

online editor | colorist | VFX | BD author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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Anthony Miles
Re: Hyperdeck shuttle HDMI in adding set up to DNxHD file?
on May 1, 2012 at 6:16:41 am

Thanks for the tip. I watched it in quicktime and in Adobe Premere CS 5.5. This is a bummer to hear. Is there a work around for non avid folks?

Best regards,
Anthony Miles
DP, Editor 4th Wall Productions, LLC
http://4thwalltvandfilm.com


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Juan Salvo
Re: Hyperdeck shuttle HDMI in adding set up to DNxHD file?
on May 1, 2012 at 2:46:15 pm

You can use the free resolve lite to convert the DNxHD codec to ProRes. But resolve only supports DNxHD in an Avid MXF container for the time being.

Sorenson Squeeze and a PC app called Metafuze can convert the qt DNxHD to MXF. Or you could use the free avid trial.

Going forward you could record to MXF on the hyperdeck (note you loose the 16 tracks of audio, it only does 2 for now) and then convert to prores with the free resolve lite for editing.

Or pick up and avid crossgrade and use that. QT to MXF is a quick rewrap.

As far as making DNxHD qts work properly... No, I don't know of any way to do it. If you find one please post it here and let us all know. It would be really useful. The issue here lies with Avid not BMD, as the hyperdeck recording is displayed correctly by Avid, just not the Avid produced QT codec.

online editor | colorist | VFX | BD author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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Anthony Miles
Re: Hyperdeck shuttle HDMI in adding set up to DNxHD file?
on May 1, 2012 at 3:13:12 pm

Juan,
Thank you very much. I will likely try resolve light for this fix. I really think it needs the ProRes recording functionality as I am not an Avid editor and my hopes were to use this with my Premiere workflow and have less hassle and conversion. To the best of my knowledge premiere doesn't work with DNxHD MXF files, but maybe I will run a quick test to confirm.

Is there a way to turn off all the audio tracks and keep them from recording in the quicktime and get only 2? this has been a bit of an issue for my basic workflow?

Maybe I will download and avid trial and see how it runs, it is tough trying out new software and trying to get jobs done. Im sure you understand.

Thanks again.

Best regards,
Anthony Miles
DP, Editor 4th Wall Productions, LLC
http://4thwalltvandfilm.com


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Juan Salvo
Re: Hyperdeck shuttle HDMI in adding set up to DNxHD file?
on May 1, 2012 at 3:28:22 pm

[Anthony Miles] "premiere doesn't work with DNxHD MXF files"

That's correct. My suggestion was to take those MXFs in to Resolve and then render out ProRes QTs for your edit.

[Anthony Miles] "Is there a way to turn off all the audio tracks and keep them from recording in the quicktime and get only 2? "

No, but if you record MXF it only records 2 tracks.

[Anthony Miles] "Maybe I will download and avid trial and see how it runs"

In your current workflow I think Avid might be a better fit. So trying it out is worthwhile. Plus as an editor it's good to know as many platforms as possible.

online editor | colorist | VFX | BD author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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Anthony Miles
Re: Hyperdeck shuttle HDMI in adding set up to DNxHD file?
on May 1, 2012 at 11:06:03 pm

Would there be any harm in just color correcting the DNXHD quicktime files to look as I wished, or trascoding to prores then color correcting them? I was trying to avoid the transcode step if possible.

Best regards,
Anthony Miles
DP, Editor 4th Wall Productions, LLC
http://4thwalltvandfilm.com


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Juan Salvo
Re: Hyperdeck shuttle HDMI in adding set up to DNxHD file?
on May 2, 2012 at 6:58:06 pm

Hmmm, only in so much as you're having fewer bits representing the viable image. For most thing I suppose this wouldn't be a major problem.

online editor | colorist | VFX | BD author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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Anthony Miles
Re: Hyperdeck shuttle HDMI in adding set up to DNxHD file?
on May 3, 2012 at 12:51:37 am

yes, but kind of defeats the better quality codec, and the faster workflow of a direct to edit codec as well, unless you are AVID based, which I am not. Thanks again for your adice and thoughts. Hopefully they will bring ProRes to the HyperDeck Shuttle, otherwise it is probably not for me.

Best regards,
Anthony Miles
DP, Editor 4th Wall Productions, LLC
http://4thwalltvandfilm.com


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Asaf Blasberg
Re: Hyperdeck shuttle HDMI in adding set up to DNxHD file?
on May 12, 2012 at 12:47:39 am

Dear Anthony,
I have investigated this issue to the nth degree all day today, and my results are quite interesting. I have Premiere Pro CS6 (Windows) version, and an Intensity Pro card from Blackmagic that allows me to output to a broadcast monitor. I have it connected to a broadcast monitor and an HDTV via HDMI. I set my Hyperdeck Shuttle to DNxHD Quicktime format like you. I recorded color bars from my camera and recorded first to DNxHD, and then uncompressed. When I looked at both of the files in Quicktime, I saw exactly the same issue that you saw... the DNxHD looks a little "washed out"... however, when I brought both files into the Premiere timeline and played them back in on my broadcast monitor it was exactly the same, no washed out colors at all. It was dead on correct. It is definitely some kind of a Quicktime / Avid gamma bug, and I honestly wouldn't worry about it so much.

With regards to further testing, here's the real kicker. When you export your sequence (File -> Export Media), you have this big dialog box that shows you a "preview" of what you will render.... in my timeline i had the first few frames of dnxhd, and then immediately next to that some frames from the uncompressed quicktime.... when i was switching frame by frame back and forth in the Render preview window, i could see the shift in the colors that you noticed; however, in the timeline as i mentioned above, it's exactly the same! Very very WEIRD :) .... but the funny thing is this -- if you render to every possible codec like H.264, H.264 Blu-ray, or MPEG-2 DVD, there is no color shift at all and again it is perfect.

There is obviously something weird going here but i'm happy because my final renders are *correct*..i also noticed that regardless of this issue, the Quicktime player does seem to have washed out colors for every Quicktime file i play back on Windows... but when I'm on a Mac the colors look very nice and saturated... the only render that did exhibit the change in colors was when I tried to render to an uncompressed AVI, but if I rendered to an uncompressed Quicktime file, the problem was NOT there...

Then I went to the Apple Store to see if i could see the gamma shift... there was absolutely NO gamma shift... then i loaded the two clips in Final Cut Pro X and it was perfect... so what this tells me is that the Hyperdeck Shuttle records colors properly...

Hope this helps.... So as long as you render your final sequence you should be fine.... as i mentioned before above, the colors are correct when played back on a broadcast monitor **and** in the program monitor of Premiere itself (on the computer monitor)...

-Asaf



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Jay Bloomfield
Re: Hyperdeck shuttle HDMI in adding set up to DNxHD file?
on May 12, 2012 at 8:43:25 pm

Thanks for checking all that. I have been pretty sure that the color issue with the Hyperdeck DNxHD MOV files is on the NLE side and not caused by the Shuttle itself. It seems that it has to do with how certain brands/versions of software read the metadata in the MOV file. Some interpret it correctly and some don't.


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Levi Davis
Re: Hyperdeck shuttle HDMI in adding set up to DNxHD file?
on May 19, 2012 at 6:46:33 am

It appears that converting the files from DNxHD.mov to ProRes utilizing the application called MPEG Streamclip is an easy answer. Test out the formula by referencing the simultaneous recording from the AVC HD format.

Just followed one of the user's pattern for workflow inside of Premiere Pro CS 5.5... Rendered the entire work area and than exported to ProRes 422. The black levels appear to be just slightly higher than MPEG Streamclip's levels by about 2 - 5 percent. Both appear to be viable solutions.

05-19-2012


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