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ATEM Television studio?

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Bob Jacob
ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 18, 2012 at 2:28:26 pm

Hello,

We do baseball games for our local little leagues. Up to this point we have been using wirecast, which works, but has some problems, especially when trying to record.

I was thinking of getting the ATEM television studio to replace our wirecast box, but have a problem. Our center field camera using component to get the video signal back to our trailer. The distance is pretty extreme, using over 400 feet of Ethernet cable, since we have to go around the fence. Component is about the only thing we have found that can go that far. I was looking at fiber, but not really sure how fragile it is in the field, not to mention how much that much fiber would cost.

I noticed that the Television studio doesn't have a component input. I started looking at the 1 M/E at that point but noticed that it doesn't have a hardware mp4 encoder, which is pretty important for our workflow.

So I was wondering if anyone had a suggestion that would allow us to use the ATEM television studio. Perhaps a good compnent to hdmi converter? At this point I am not sure what would be the best way to go.

Thanks


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Mike Squires
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 18, 2012 at 4:59:07 pm

Blackmagic sells a component to SDI mini-converter for $295. This will work with the TVS.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/miniconverters/models/


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Bob Jacob
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 18, 2012 at 5:28:32 pm

I hope you will excuse my ignorance, I have never even read up on SDI, I was under the impression that SDI was standard def, and that HD-SDI was the high def version.


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Mike Squires
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 18, 2012 at 5:53:36 pm

SDI stands for Serial Digital Interface. Yes, SDI is standard def, and HD-SDI is high def, though both use the same types of cables.

The TVS takes both SDI and HD-SDI (and HDMI), and the mini-converter I linked to does both SDI and HD-SDI.

Some of us get lazy with the terms, we may use "SDI" even when speaking of "HD-SDI".


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Bob Jacob
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 18, 2012 at 6:00:50 pm

Thanks, that clears things up. It sounds like its pretty compelling for what we do.

I guess my last question is about the h264 recording. I read on the BM site that using some software on the computer you can record. But some day, I might want to stream a broadcast as well.

Does the TVS support an hdmi output, with audio so we can feed it into a streaming computer? I have read through a few posts and I am getting the feeling that it only sends video, but I could be reading things wrong.

Once again thanks for your help.


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Mike Squires
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 18, 2012 at 6:07:06 pm

You can stream if you use the software MX Light, the Blackmagic software (Media Express) currently only records.

Yes, both the SDI and HDMI outputs do audio, but you need to know that it embeds the audio from the audio AES input. Meaning, all audio needs to come into the TVS as a single input, normally coming from a mixer. The TVS ignores the audio coming into the unit via HDMI or SDI.

And yes, the h.264 output contains the audio also.


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Bob Jacob
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 18, 2012 at 6:15:14 pm

Thanks Mike! Thats exactaly what I needed to know!


We already input all our audio into a central mixer anyway (coming from cameras turned out to be a bad idea), so it shouldn't be a problem as long as the AES converter doesn't add too much delay.

Had a problem a few years ago, that the audio was out of sync by a 1/4 second, so when someone hit the ball you heard the "clink" of the bat later. To say the least is was embarrassing. So we started making sure the cards in out switcher were all the same type so they would all have the same delay.


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Mike Squires
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 18, 2012 at 6:21:42 pm

In our experience, the TVS adds about a 4-frame delay to the video. If your mixer can't add a delay for the audio, there are plenty of devices that can do it for around $130.


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Aleksander Steffensen
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 18, 2012 at 6:31:38 pm

4 frame delay? Well, the ATEM TVS installations I have delivered all have 1 frame of delay with genlocked sources. Genlock is crucial in these kinds of productions.

Aleksander Steffensen
Steffensen Multimedia


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Bob Jacob
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 18, 2012 at 6:35:22 pm

I am an amateur to say the least. We sell some DVD's buts its mainly done the pay the camera operators. I love baseball, which is the main reason I do it.

In that train of thought, I have not even looked into "genlock", I figure its pretty high end, out of my price range, and I don't think I could afford new cameras for that matter too. Right now we use cheap little consumer cannon HV30's, was going to look into some of the new dslr's but figure I needed a better switcher before spent money on that.


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Mike Squires
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 18, 2012 at 7:06:30 pm

The reason we end up with a 4-frame delay is because our video isn't feeding directly from the cameras into the TVS. In our studio, the cameras go into our Echolab switcher, then into a DPS, and finally into the TVS. The audio just comes straight out of our mixer into the TVS.


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Aleksander Steffensen
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 19, 2012 at 8:23:06 am

Well then, don't say the TVS is adding 4 frames of delay, it is probably only responsible for 1 frame, it's all the other stuff the signal goes through before entering the TVS. :)

Aleksander Steffensen
Steffensen Multimedia


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Richard Crowley
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 20, 2012 at 4:20:20 pm

There is going to be delay in any digital system. It doesn't help to place blame on specific links in the chain. Just plan on doing audio delay to restore sync. It is not expensive to do.

IMHO, genlock is an artifact from the analog TV era. Probably still valuable in a large studio complex, but of only academic interest to small-scale users which the ATEM products appeal to (because of their price structure).

It would cost you at least 10x more to use gen-lock cameras than to simply delay the audio to restore sync. It isn't even a horse race. That kind of money would be MUCH better spent on other things which would actually add production value to the final product. (Like instant replay, etc)


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Shaun Roemich
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 21, 2012 at 2:53:23 am

"IMHO, genlock is an artifact from the analog TV era."

Not at all!

It is CRUCIAL for applications requiring fast transmission, such as in a multi camera live situation with screens where the audience can see the action "live" as well as on screens, for example: live sports or conferences, houses of worship etc.

Just because YOUR application doesn't require it, doesn't mean it is obsolete.

My next camera purchases are very specific and MUST include genlock capability.

Ymmv.

Big Dog - Technical Director - Switcher
Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC Canada
roaddogmedia@gmail.com


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Rob Nachum
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 25, 2012 at 12:14:01 pm

AS mentioned in a parallel post, we are currently ground testing the TVS. We are using the Behringer DEQ2496 to manage all of the audio requirements as it has a whole bunch of tricks up its sleeve other than A/D conversion including delay (the big tick), limiter, gate etc and seems very good value particularly against other A/D converters priced way higher without all the extras.

From my understanding if you're using "prosumer" type cameras with only HDMI out (only!), then get HDMI to SDI converters and that should give you plenty of distance on the digi BNC cables. 10-20m of HDMI would be about your maximum I would've thought but happy to be corrected / educated.

Cheers
Rob


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Mike Squires
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Apr 25, 2012 at 9:49:21 pm

Rob, you are correct.


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Michael Spano
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Aug 26, 2012 at 5:03:10 pm

[Rob Nachum] "We are using the Behringer DEQ2496 to manage all of the audio requirements as it has a whole bunch of tricks up its sleeve other than A/D conversion including delay (the big tick), limiter, gate etc and seems very good value particularly against other A/D converters priced way higher without all the extras."

Ok a couple months late but this is still relevant info to me. Are you saying that the DEQ2496 not only does the Analogue to Digital Conversion for input to the TVS but also has the delay function? I was two seconds away from purchasing the Shark DSP110 along with the SRC 2496.

Please say that it is so!!!!


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Rob Nachum
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Aug 26, 2012 at 11:39:02 pm

Hi Michael

It is so. The DEQ has a built it delay that runs to +-300ms which seems to cope in most situations. We did have one occasions where we needed more delay overhead. However, in that example, the primary desk was also digital and was able to pass us more delay which we then "reversed". Worked perfectly.

Our normal setup us ~3 cameras, the media player, varying cable length back to the ATEM and even mixing HD-SDI and HDMI cameras (and to go the extra step there mixed in the ATEM as HD-SDI and HDMI or using the BMD HD-SDI converter.

I also looked at purchasing the separate items. I didn't get as far as chaecking how much delay the Shark ran to. But in the end, there was more benefit (and vealue) in the range of tools in the DEQ combined with the delay than getting the separate bits as for us there is little additional benefit in having a discreet delay management tool. IN fact we are still finding hidden benefits in the DEQ (my audio guys are pleasantly surprised as I'm the ludite in the field...)

Hope this helps.
Cheers
Rob


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Michael Spano
Re: ATEM Television studio?
on Sep 2, 2012 at 5:09:29 pm

Rob,

I noticed the the DEQ2496 does not have an RCA AES output (Just an Optical/XLR). Did you just use an XLR to BNC cable to connect the unit the the TV Studio? I'm just wondering because other posts said that the XLR AES Output on the SRC2496 was a different frequency than what the TV Studio takes in and they needed a converter. Just want to make sure I get everything I need in one pass. Thanks!


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