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Paolo Castellano
BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 4:29:06 pm

Elegant, sophisticated and jam packed with the latest digital cinema technology, Blackmagic Cinema Camera gives your work that timeless feature film look! Blackmagic Cinema Camera features an amazing 2.5K image sensor with a wide 13 stops of dynamic range for a true digital film camera. You get a built-in SSD recorder, popular open standard uncompressed RAW and compressed file formats, compatibility with quality EF and ZF mount lenses, LCD touchscreen monitoring plus metadata entry, all packed into an exciting hand held design!



http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/blackmagiccinemacamera/

Paolo.Castellano@ivs.it
http://www.ivsEdits.com
-----------------------
"Post Fata Resurgo"


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Noah Kadner
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 4:36:14 pm

Yep- it's about as awesome as one could want. Especially at this price....

Noah

Call Box Training.
Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and Panasonic AC160/130.


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Richard Cooper
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 6:46:28 pm

AND it comes with FULL VERSION of DaVinci Resolve as well as UltraScope Software! Wow

Anyone hear anything about frame rate capabilities?

Richard Cooper
FrostLine Productions, LLC
Anchorage, Alaska
http://www.frostlineproductions.com


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Richard Cooper
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 6:47:41 pm

I think they have definitely created a buz.... the BlackMagic web site is DOWN!

Richard Cooper
FrostLine Productions, LLC
Anchorage, Alaska
http://www.frostlineproductions.com


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Nigel Thompson
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 4:36:27 pm

nuts im getting one or three for my broadcast work immediately

well as soon as its released LOL

High End, Production & Post Production
in the Caribbean
http://www.bistt.com


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Nigel Thompson
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 4:38:11 pm

great crash cam as well

High End, Production & Post Production
in the Caribbean
http://www.bistt.com


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Hal Lovemelt
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 10:32:16 pm

when you say that do you mean content aquisition, or for live... Im very curious if the HD-SDI feed is capable of live video... any idea?


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João Santos
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 9:46:01 am

I would love to use it on TV news studio. We have SD cameras with B4 mount lens from Canon.

How long can be the thunderbolt cable for image control?

The HD-SDI is clean feed Full HD?

Its a great price for Studio Camera.

----
Best Regards
João Santos
Portugal


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Adam Duplay
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 4:38:44 pm

Looks pretty awesome at first glance.

Adam Duplay


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Chris Frantz
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 5:31:05 pm

How do I purchase this camera?! Seriously, take my money now.


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Nigel Thompson
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 5:55:22 pm

everything DSLR is suddenly useless

High End, Production & Post Production
in the Caribbean
http://www.bistt.com


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Nigel Thompson
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 7:52:29 pm

Wait a second....

if this is a super 16 sized sensor, are they going to bring a 35mm sized one later ?

Interesting times ..........

High End, Production & Post Production
in the Caribbean
http://www.bistt.com


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Chris Conlee
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 8:00:44 pm

Does anybody have any info on what technology they're using for the sensor? Looking at the sample footage, I'm not noticing any wobble or jello footage, and the lights are flaring. Could it be they're using CCD tech? I'd actually LOVE that, if it were true. I'll take flares over wobble any day of the week.

Chris


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Morten Ranmar
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 8:54:37 pm

Unfortunately the sensor is smaller than four-thirds, rendering most Canon lenses unusable...

- No Parking Production -

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Margus Voll
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 9:44:00 pm

still at that price point this is just amazing!

one still needs to have nice glass and nice lighting to make most of it as with any other camera.

lovely product!

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


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Shane Betts
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 10:16:29 pm

They either need to offer an NEX or 4/3 mount or a bigger sensor. That aside, looks amazing.

Cheers
Bettsy


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Hampus Lager
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 10:29:51 pm

Why do they to? Most people use Canon or Nikon mount lenses and there'll be plenty of adapter for this. Bigger sensor? get a used 5D mkII :P


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Shane Betts
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 10:51:45 pm

They need a bigger sensor or a mount with a shorter flange distance because smaller sensor means any given lens performs more like a telephoto. In other words, no wide angles!

I have no problem with the small sensor per se, god knows we could all use more shots actually in focus, but a lens mount designed for such small sensor sizes would allow us to access wide angles. And an NEX or 3/4 mount still lets you use EF and Nikon mount lenses with common, cheap adaptors.

That's why.:-)

Cheers
Bettsy


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Steve Connor
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 10:16:43 pm

Well done BMD, thanks for stirring it up.

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Nigel Thompson
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 10:38:37 pm

My only problem with the cam from what im seeing is the very tiny sensor, so a wide shot wont be wide at all. Even if you find an 8mm lens or something it'll equate to a 20mm on this sensor... other than that it looks fantastic

High End, Production & Post Production
in the Caribbean
http://www.bistt.com


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Will Salley
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 10:49:09 pm

Looks like a great concept. Unfortunately, it has a very small effective sensor area (roughly 1280x720)

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/blackmagiccinemacamera/techspecs/

So that's where the execution falls short. As mentioned in an earlier post, maybe it's a precursor to a larger sensor model.

• • • • • •

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Shane Betts
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 16, 2012 at 10:53:27 pm

Yes Will, they do make several references to the camera "family", thus far one camera and a handle. Looks like more to follow, which sounds like Grant's MO.

Cheers
Bettsy


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Shane Betts
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 1:13:34 am

Reading through the specs I notice one other issue. Inbuilt battery. 90 minutes use, 2 hours recharge. Who else sees the problem here?

It'll be interesting as people get these things and build rod kits, external power kits etc.

Cheers
Bettsy


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Nate Hall
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 6:28:17 am

Needs A micro four thirds mount also.

If I can use my 25mm 0.95 Voigtlander Nokton on this thing I'm sold day one.


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Miłosz Koziol
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 6:59:53 am

power is the least problem - main is that tiny sensor - of course, you could look for old 16mm lens and get them to work through various adapters but I think that @ this point fs 700 is waaay more into me than this. XLR, SDI - you name it. And it has super 35 mm sensor AND 4k ready. I guess BMDcam is a step in right direction but I m still holdnig to my ex1r and 60d


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Margus Voll
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 8:51:39 am

raw or prorez, h264 can not beat that.

you just find right glass and you will be fine!

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


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Nigel Thompson
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 11:00:40 am

And thats the problem getting glass to give you a good range with that tiny sensor.....

the only caveat from what is other wise a fantastic leap forward.

Im sure a super 35mm version is next for 6k .... ill buy that and maybe still one of these if there is a way to get a proper wide angle

High End, Production & Post Production
in the Caribbean
http://www.bistt.com


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Margus Voll
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 11:04:40 am

but still you get results similar to alexa but camera cost is way smaller.

and you do not have to worry about compression to much ?

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


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Nigel Thompson
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 11:09:17 am

true !!! u dont have to worry about compression at all

u just dont have a wide shot .....or rather a proper wide shot. cant shoot in small spaces with this

High End, Production & Post Production
in the Caribbean
http://www.bistt.com


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Margus Voll
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 11:20:36 am

i would not worry before release. who knows what will surface by this time.

and if there signs of "family" then we just have to wait and see.

important thing that break is made and it will get exiting.

people will matter more not the actual tech. i see it with Resolve LE.
Anyone can use it. Only few that actually can make good results.
So it is more about the users.

I also like the way it was told on one video on Vimeo: "we had recorder so we did add sensor to it"
They can play with ideas as they like or how needed to make everybody happy.

Somehow it seems to me that i can dream it BM makes product for it after dreaming it.
Maybe i should go and work with them :)

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


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Nigel Thompson
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 11:27:25 am

LOL:
let me know if you do....
You are very right by the way.
I met Grant via email and 2-pop i think it is years ago when he was working with Digital voodoo. back then he was frustrated with their old school way of thinking ..... i actually remember hearing him complaining one time then boom black magic..... really great to see how far they have come

High End, Production & Post Production
in the Caribbean
http://www.bistt.com


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Margus Voll
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 11:33:32 am

i mentioned one idea back in the day on Resolve forum and it got made by some time.
It is hard for me to tell if it was driven by my idea or they just have all the ideas worked out by the time i get there.

Today we see CUDA computing in Resolve.
Then it seemed like flying to moon with umbrella.

This is why i'm so optimistic about BM products as I have always been since my first Decklink.
They evolve and fast.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


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Miłosz Koziol
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 6:13:47 pm

How about micro 4/3 lenses? Arent they close enough? Or maybe old Arri 16 mm - you can find some decent ones - does any one will it be possible?


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Shane Betts
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 9:26:28 pm

Nope. That's the problem right there. They would be ideal but the flange depth of the Canon mount is way to great. Great concept. Mount fail.

Cheers
Bettsy


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Miłosz Koziol
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 9:58:33 pm

Curses - it was too good to be true though... I`m keen on second gen though - just like it was with intesity shuttle - first gen ucompressed 10 bit only but in second you could record with avid codec. I hope it will happen to BMDcam : PL mount or micro 4/3 mount (Nokton F0,95/17,5 mm anyone?)


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Margus Voll
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 8:50:35 am

12-30 volts one can power from what ever. bring car battery along and you get the power for week

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


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Barend Onneweer
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 11:32:43 am

Where do you get that it records a 1280x720 area of the chip? It seems to record a 2432 x 1366 area in RAW, that it scales down to 1920 x 1080 if you record Prores.

If the downsampling is less prone to moire than the Canon 5D this looks like a very interesting little camera.

Barend

Raamw3rk - independent colourist and visual effects artist


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Will Salley
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 2:03:10 pm

My reply was a bit confusing. I should have stated that the effective imaging area of the chip equates to a 1280x720 frame in terms of optics. In other words, the depth-of-field is back to being equal to a 1/3" camera. That might not be an issue with many shooters, but it also means, as has been stated earlier, that finding a proper wide-angle lens will be very difficult because of the dreaded conversion factor.

An infinite depth-of-field may not be such a bad thing with this particular camera out of the box, because without an additional monitor of viewfinder, it will take some very good eyesight, and a little luck, to achieve consistent focus.

Don't get me wrong, I think the camera is very innovative and holds a lot of promise for future revision. The idea of an on-board SSD recording to those formats is a huge benefit. It reminds me of an Apple designed product - very clean design, simple controls, yet elegant. Unfortunately, professional and creative shooters need very precise control and the ability to manipulate optics, and that requires a more complicated camera...and it includes an ability to monitor your image in something close to the resolution to which you're shooting.

• • • • • •

Mac Pro 2x2.8 Quadcore - 10.6.8 - 22 GB RAM - nvidia8800GT - SATA internal & external storage - Blackmagic Multibridge Pro - Open GL 1.5.10 - Wacom Intous2 tablet - AJA io
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Ron Dylewski
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 5:12:57 pm

Am I missing something or is there really no overcranking?

Ron

Photos, news, memories and musings on the great American Roadside experience
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Snarky daily political and pop culture satire!
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Shane Betts
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 6:25:41 pm

Grant truly is, still, one of the great disruptors in the industry and this camera is one of his most disruptive moves yet. I just wish it had a lens mount more suited to the smaller sensor. Micro 4/3 or Sony NEX would allow you to adapt almost any glass you want to it because of their extremely short flange distance. With an EF mount, the native mount is too far away from the sensor to mount 16mm glass (which would be ideal) on the camera.

Yes, there are a couple of other niggles but this thing delivers something very close to Alexa (OK, with more depth of field) for under $3k. WTF?! He's going to sell a ton of them despite the lack of wide angle lenses. I just wish he'd got the mount right.

Cheers
Bettsy


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Barend Onneweer
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 7:30:44 pm

The resolution has nothing to do with the depth of field characteristics. I still don't see where you get the 1280x720 number. The active area of the chip is 15x8 mm which is slightly larger than a Super16 frame, (much larger than 1/3") which in the last decades has been more than useful for feature film, documentary and television drama. So although you won't get the super shallow DoF 5D look from it, the sensor size is very useful for a lot of people.

Unfortunately it looks like lenses for 16mm cameras won't work on the BM camera so that's my main gripe.

Barend

Raamw3rk - independent colourist and visual effects artist


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Nigel Thompson
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 17, 2012 at 10:31:22 pm

I also just found out the the ISO/ASA in the camera are just in three steps: 400, 800(native) and 1600

no steps in between, so its the sensor size and ISO steps

no biggy

High End, Production & Post Production
in the Caribbean
http://www.bistt.com


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Margus Voll
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 18, 2012 at 8:16:19 am

iso should be changeable by software eazyly?

I bet BM hears what we say and if possible makes some changes by the time they will start selling.

I have seen this before, so no reason to make hard comments on stuff that can change fast or just by
"bios" updates.

If there would be place to enlist with BM products betas i would be happy to apply and help to
iron out stuff and try to generate some new ideas.
I just love their products.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


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Shane Betts
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 18, 2012 at 8:57:47 am

I'm a bit of a fan too. And you're right, Grant invented the whole free firmware update thing Red have made their own. The lens mount concerns me more because it's a hardware redesign. Not out of the question of course, which is why it's essential we make some noise about it.

Cheers
Bettsy


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Miłosz Koziol
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 18, 2012 at 10:37:23 am

how about that and 5.6 mm lens?


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Shane Betts
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 18, 2012 at 10:56:36 am

Yep, there are adaptors that allow you to go from EF to any number of other (35mm) mounts. Problem is the 44mm flange distance - short for 35mm cameras (hence the proliferation of adaptors) is too big for this camera.

Given the tiny sensor, this camera needs 16mm lenses and the Arri 16mm flange distance is something like 17.5mm if I remember correctly. You can always use an adaptor to move the lens away from the sensor in the case of short flange depth mounts - so you could always mount an EF lens on a camera with a 17.5mm flange depth but you can't go the other way...

All BMD need to do is change the front standard to a short flange depth mount. That would open it up to all kinds of lens makes via adaptors. I really hope they do because the camera looks really intriguing.

Cheers
Bettsy


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Margus Voll
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 18, 2012 at 11:29:17 am

In tech sense it is be pretty easy if you have control over manufacturing.

Just adjust a bit in your cad and let the cnc do the rest.

Its more question of time and money not the tech possibility these days.
I say this as i am involved on real tiny production of something and i see the possibilities
and ways to do stuff.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


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Miłosz Koziol
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 18, 2012 at 12:09:10 pm

even though 20 mm from a decent 10 mm lenses should be sufficent in most cases ( correct me if I`m wrong but BMDcam is 2x crop, isnt?)


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Shane Betts
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 20, 2012 at 12:14:53 pm

Just read Marco Solorio's article on the camera and it just further confirmed for me the potential of this camera. And I don't share his uncertainty over moire and aliasing - like Red's cameras this camera directly maps each sensor pixel to each captured pixel so these issues shouldn't arise.

Now then Grant, just give us a Micro 4 thirds mount and we're all good to go.

Cheers
Bettsy


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Joseph Owens
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 20, 2012 at 10:19:48 pm

[Shane Betts] "Now then Grant, just give us a Micro 4 thirds mount and we're all good to go."

Second the motion.

The very first thing out of my commercial client's mouth was "what's the mount?.... oh... toy lenses."

PL at least, please.

I'd buy two, for, oh, I dunno, just because its a nice round number.... and a roll of gaff tape....

jPo

You mean "Old Ben"? Ben Kenobi?


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Mike Squires
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 21, 2012 at 4:17:16 pm

We're looking at upgrading our ENG SD cameras (and field camera), and this is what we primarily shoot:

2-man @ desk in front of green screen for sports show
Some local commercial productions
College football (shot from the media booth)

Would this camera with this lens work:
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/tamron_18-270_3p5-6p3_vc_n15

We currently use JVC ENG cameras with Fuji glass (18x), which seems to work just fine for all of our shooting.

Many thanks!


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Joseph Owens
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 21, 2012 at 4:45:00 pm

[Mike Squires] "Would this camera with this lens work:
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/tamron_18-270_3p5-6p3_vc_n15"


Its an EF mount, so you will at least be able to attach it to the body.

jPo

You mean "Old Ben"? Ben Kenobi?


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Mike Squires
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 21, 2012 at 8:24:02 pm

Just thought of something, how do folks get remote zoom functions on any of these EF mount lenses?

When I'm shooting sports, I can't have my hand on the lens in order to zoom in or out. $40k for a Canon Cinema lens is out of the question.


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Peter J. DeCrescenzo
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 23, 2012 at 6:20:50 pm

[Mike Squires] "We're looking at upgrading our ENG SD cameras (and field camera), and this is what we primarily shoot:

2-man @ desk in front of green screen for sports show
Some local commercial productions
College football (shot from the media booth)

Would this camera with this lens work:
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/tamron_18-270_3p5-6p3_vc_n15

We currently use JVC ENG cameras with Fuji glass (18x), which seems to work just fine for all of our shooting."


There are many things to like about the new BmCC -- I just pre-ordered one. The BmCC might be great for 2 of the uses you mention (greenscreen & commercials), but I don't think shooting sports/action will be a good use for it.

As its name implies, the Blackmagic Cinema Camera is primarily intended for cinema-style shooting, not sports or for following fast-moving action.

Lenses designed for sports/action videography typically have servo motors for zoom and other features such as constant aperture and especially parfocal focussing. Lenses designed for DSLRs typically don't have all 3 of these features. Although some DSLR lenses have constant aperture and parfocal focussing, it's the lack of smooth motorized zooming that makes them generally unsuitable for sports/action.

A (funky) workaround might be rigging a manual follow-focus unit to the zoom ring (not the focus ring) of a constant aperture, parfocal DSLR lens, but the result won't be as smooth or controllable as using a good servo-zoom lens.

Further, the BmCC's maximum frame rate is 30p. For some sports/action shooting 60p can be a valuable feature, but it's not a feature offered by the BmCC.

Cheers.
---

http://www.peterdv.com


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Mike Squires
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 23, 2012 at 7:32:10 pm

Peter, thanks for your response.

Yes, we have found a work-around like you said for the lack of servo zoom:

http://www.dvcity.com/dvshop/product.php?productid=18089

And since our current cameras are SD only (480i), shooting in 30p would give us the same results as I currently get. After a couple of years of practice shooting football with our cameras, I've learned not to pan too fast, and try to anticipate how the play is unfolding.

I guess I should have also noted that we don't air these games live or stream them, I edit the footage for highlights for the coach's show that we produce.

I'd be interested in finding a lens that does have the other two features you noted. The only other feature that would be great is auto-iris, but I can manually control that if need be.

Thanks again for your comments, and any other insight would be appreciated.


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Margus Voll
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 23, 2012 at 9:05:33 pm

In tech sense there is nothing special to it. One can really make that one at home
if you do not need all the additional stuff to gears and buttons.

Under 100 i bet

Seems nice option for remotely adjusting lens as an idea still.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 5.1 2x2,93 24GB
GTX 470 / Quadro 4000
Multibridge 2 Pro


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Randy Walters
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 22, 2012 at 4:10:31 pm

Canon's 10-22 EPS zoom translates to 15mm - 33mm on the Cinema Camera... a very nice, affordable lens. Should do the trick, especially since you'll be shooting through the sweet spot in the center.



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Shane Betts
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 22, 2012 at 9:00:50 pm

A 10-22 would deliver the equivalent of 20-44 on this 2x crop sensor. Still not all that bad. And, yes, as you point out, you're in the sweet spot - one of the major advantages of the smaller sensor.

Cheers
Bettsy


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Randy Walters
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 22, 2012 at 9:48:41 pm

Are you sure, or do I have the math wrong?

It's my understanding that EF lenses will deliver the image of 2.4 times their full-frame rating, and EF-S lenses will deliver 1.5 times theirs. No?



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Shane Betts
Re: BMD Cinema Camera!
on Apr 23, 2012 at 1:33:03 am

No:-( Focal length is what it is. A 50mm is a 50mm is a 50mm - except on some happy snappy cameras where they place an asterix next to the focal length and in small print somewhere mention they're talking "35mm comparative" or some such marketing speak.

So, presuming your point of reference is a 36x24mm frame (full frame 35mm stills), Dx or super 35 (motion picture 16:9 default) is 1.6:1 and this camera is around 2:1.

Cheers
Bettsy


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